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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes_Workshop_02/16/2006MINUTES JOINT WORKSHOP MEETING VILLAGE OF TEQUESTA VILLAGE COUNCIL; MARTIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS; TOWN OF JUPITER TOWN COUNCIL; FACILITATED BY PALM BEACH COUNTY COMMISSIONER KAREN MARCUS THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2006 2:00 P.M. I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL -The Tequesta Village Council held a Joint Workshop Meeting with Martin County Commissioners and the Town of Jupiter Town Council Village of Tequesta Council, and facilitated by Palm Beach County Commissioner Karen Marcus at the Tequesta Recreation Center, 399 Seabrook Road, Tequesta, Florida, on Thursday, February 16, 2006. The meeting was called to order at 2:10 p.m. A roll call was taken by Village Clerk Gwen Carlisle. Present were: Palm Beach County Commissioner Kazen Marcus, Martin County Commissioner Susan Valliere, Chair; Martin County Commissioner Michael DiTerlizzi, Vice Chair; Commissioner Doug Smith; Commissioner Lee Weberman; Commissioner Sarah Heard; Town of Jupiter Councilor Don Daniels; Mr. George Webb, Palm Beach County Engineer; Mr. Gary Roberts, Martin County Deputy Engineer; Village of Tequesta Mayor Jim Humpage; Vice-Mayor Pat Watkins; Council Member Geraldine A. Genco; and Council Member Tom Paterno. Also in attendance were Village Clerk Gwen Cazlisle and Department • Heads. Town of Jupiter Mayor Karen Golonka arrived at 2:20P.M. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor Humpage led in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Commissioner Lee Weberman asked if he could give the Village a briefing on a project that they will be doing shortly in Turtle Creek. He stated Mr. Gary Roberts, Martin County, Deputy Engineer is prepared to brief everyone on the construction activities. He stated they are going to do about $100,000 worth of paving in Turtle Creek and they wanted to make sure everyone was aware of it. He respectfully asked this to be added to the agenda. Mayor Humpage asked for an approval, which he received. MOTION: Vice-Mayor Watkins moved to approve the agenda, as amended; seconded by Commissioner Sarah Heard; All were in favor; motion passed. 1) Discussion of findings/conclusions of the Jupiter Area Traffic Study Mayor Humpage stated he thought this was a first for all to be in the same room together in many years. He noted every area was affected by traffic, the Town of Jupiter, the unincorporated Palm Beach County, Martin County and the Village of Tequesta. He stated they were here to a neighborly meeting, and nobody was here to point fingers. He • explained what the Village is trying to do is to decide what avenues there aze to relieve Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 2 • issues they have; increase the flow of traffic; and concerns with future development in the area. Basically, he commented, as neighbors he wanted to insure that their quality of life is equal and good, and thought it was a plus to see all these people; he really appreciated everyone being here. He stated he could not remember how many times they had discussions on this. He hoped that they could get some direction and move in an expedient manner to relieve some of the issues that everyone was faced with. Mayor Humpage asked for everyone to look at the traffic studies they had; in these traffic studies they also try to project future traffic. He pointed out they may be accurate, or may not be accurate. He felt for every opinion somebody has another opinion. He thought maybe everyone in the room has been affected in the past few months by the two bridges, primarily the Loxahatchee River Road Bridge in Jupiter and the Tequesta Drive Bridge in Tequesta. He felt what this has done is perhaps shown everyone that traffic is not what they thought it was. He, as a member of the Village Council listened to his constituents complain to him about traffic; and it is interesting because he has his own company, and does a lot of work in Little Club and Turtle Creek, which are in Martin County. He stated it has always been Tequesta's position that they feel there is a great deal of traffic being brought in from unincorporated Palm Beach County and Martin County into Tequesta, via Country Club Drive and Tequesta Drive. He stated Tequesta has always been proponents of the Western Corridor, of which one section is now complete, and is a great improvement. He explained they needed to consider the expansion of the corridor in the • event that they have other catastrophes such as what they had with the two bridges. He stated this is one of his main concerns with the traffic. He commented he wanted to open it up to anyone at the dais if they had any kind of plan or solution. Mayor Humpage stated he wanted to discuss Martin County's position on an extension to open up access to County Line Road. He mentioned Village Council had primarily dealt with Commissioner Weberman, and wanted to get a feel for where the other Martin County Commissioners stood on the issue. Council Member Genco noted the statement made by Mayor Humpage represented his own personal opinion and not that of the Council. She felt the Meeting should go according to the agenda, and stated that before they go forward with the discussion if anyone was present that could present the findings and conclusions of the Jupiter Area traffic study. She indicated she would love to hear that presentation. Mayor Humpage stated it was not his own personal opinion, and wanted everyone to be aware when he hears from his constituents on a daily basis regarding the issue. He stated if they had someone who would like to make that presentation, he would be happy to have that occur. Palm Beach County Commissioner Karen Marcus stated Jupiter was present, Town Manager Andrew Lukasik was present to make the presentation. Mayor Humpage stated that was fine and there was a microphone on the podium for them to speak. Mr. Lukasik thanked everyone for inviting them. He wanted to give them a general overview. He stated if they had technical questions Mr. Tom Driscoll, Director of Engineering and • Public Works was present. He wanted to discuss what their findings were in general. He commented this study was initiated after their Council found that several of the traffic 2 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 3 • miles that were being utilized to keep track of traffic on Indiantown Road. He explained they were finding that a lot of the counts were lower than what was starting to come true. He pointed out their Council determined that it was really critical to understand what the impact was going to be for Indiantown Road, projecting knowledge, and understanding what the development impact was going to be in the future. He stated that the numbers that are starting to be generated were so faz off of what was anticipated they were not sure how to address it. Prior to his arrival, Council and Staff went through a fairly rigorous process of identifying potential development within the Town, and the radius azound the town; unincorporated pockets, areas of Martin County, Tequesta, and developments to the south including Palm Beach Gazdens. He stated they tried to come up with reasonable assumptions as to what would be developed and how exactly it would flow through the region. He felt with this analysis, they were able to come up with some projections as to what was going to happen on Indiantown Road should all their assumptions come true. Town Manager Lukasik reviewed the handout on the Jupiter Area Study handout. He stated they inventoried a 40 squaze mile azea as noted on Page 2, Map of Development Influence Area. He pointed out the existing traffic on Indiantown Road in 2001 was approximately 48,034 West of Central Boulevazd, and 48,356 East of Central Boulevazd. He stated the 2020 Comp Plan Analysis, which was done in 1999 had 56,928 West of Central Boulevard and 54,211 East of Central Boulevard. He referred to the map area in • red at the bottom of the page, showing the existing Volumes in 2004. He noted the traffic numbers ranged anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000, so the traffic projections aze akeady much higher than what some of the assumptions were not long ago. He reviewed the 2004 peak times for the a.m/p.m conditions. He stated most of the intersections on Indiantown Road aze at acceptable Levels of Service with failures at the Florida Turnpike, Military Trail and Alternate AIA. He stated Military Trail and Alternate AlA could be resolved with some land improvements; and the Alternate A 1 A has a prof ect already scheduled. He referred to the A/B and C/D Level of Services, and the average daily traffic and the links and the conditions of the links; half of the links aze currently functional except near the interchange of Indiantown Road and I-95, there is where the D and F Levels of Service start to fail. He stated their greatest challenge was in the Western Corridor area, Central Boulevard area. He referred to Page 7, showing the 2004 Existing Conditions P.M. Peak and Buildout Conditions P.M. Peak. Council Member Genco asked Mr. Lukasik to explain to them how the build out scenario, what the service volumes exceedance means. She stated that Tequesta would be interested in the Western Corridor to Central Boulevard; she wanted to know the impact of that long-term, any plans, what it means. Mr. Lukasik asked them to refer to a page discussing existing conditions and build out conditions. He stated that even though most of the links still failed the intersections aze working much better in the levels of service. He referred to the baz on the right hand side . of the handout, and stated there aze definitions for the levels of service in terms of measurement but in his perspective were too complex. 3 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 4 Town Manager Lukasik mentioned with the build out conditions it assumes a series of mitigation strategies. He stated with the mitigation strategies, the levels of service are going to be predominantly benefit as an intersection and this is what they are really going to focus on. He stated the links aze going to have problems in terms of volume. Council Member Genco felt the timing and traffic flow was one issue; she felt what impacted the residential community was the exceeded volumes, because what they were looking at for the Western Corridor was a 25 mph speed limit in residential areas. She explained meaning you have a higher concern for safety. She stated if you are going to exceed the service volume, to her that indicated a concern for safety. She asked how was that being addressed on a planning perspective. Mr. Lukasik stated their analysis was on the intersections of Indiantown Road and not necessarily on the Western Corridor. He noted Island Way has a lot of the residential traffic moving north through the town, and thus creating some problems on particulaz roadway and intersections. He stated with Island Way he saw better or enhanced levels of service on Central Boulevard and other intersections on Indiantown Road. He stated the volume was still on Indiantown Road; what they were trying to address was the ability of traffic backwazd flow to the intersection. Council Member Genco asked whether Mr. Lukasik's study addressed the concurrency issue of traffic volumes offsite to contributory areas. She indicated they have a • contributory area, which is Martin County, unincorporated Palm Beach County, and Village of Tequesta that is going to be additional traffic. She felt if you aze going to have service volume exceedance that is going to be going through the residential areas that is the kind of thing that could be addressed at a concurrency review, when looking at the other municipalities. Mr. Lukasik felt they needed to come to an understanding as to what the corridor analysis was all about. He stated the analysis did not look at what was happening in the surrounding areas; it did look at Indiantown Road and some of the other major roadways in Town but it did not look at Tequesta. Council Member Genco stated that comes back to where Mayor Humpage was. Mr. Lukasik stated the trip generation was coming predominantly from the residential azeas, which aze the highest traffic generation they have. He stated one of their mitigation strategies was to utilize and research and develop. He explained there are other types of uses that have a relatively lower traffic generation rate. He felt the traffic on Indiantown Road was coming from residential, not visa versa; thus their focus had been how to maintain the traffic generation at a reasonable level. Council Member Genco asked, based on his numbers, if it would be a correct assumption to make the statement that there would be approximately a 30% increase from the contributory areas to the Western Corridor on Central Boulevazd. She stated the prior number was 49,000 and the projected was 75,000. Mr. Driscoll answered that the service volumes exceeded. He noted one of the Town's Councilor was not present, and as an engineer, he actually developed the spreadsheet and created the term. He noted what he was showing was the number of trips originally in the study that were projected to exceed the level of service `D' for the Average Annual Daily • Traffic (AADT) for Indiantown Road. He stated this was a cutout of a portion of the 4 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 5 Study. He commented the spreadsheet that he developed was a way to layout certain mitigation strategies and certain reductions, how they got the traffic back to within a reasonable level. He stated this was a volume to capacity ratio of 1.2 so although the link is not at 1, and it is not perfect they were able to get it back down to what was considered a manageable level. He stated that some of the graphics shown are links, and actually show you the existing conditions and build outs that give an F, B, or a D, and showing the AADT on that link in the A.M. or P.M. peak. He stated there are two numbers for each link, one represented A.M., the other P.M., but in the analysis you are looking more at headway in the intersections and your level of service at those vs. AADT strictly. He stated in this study, the area the study was done in conjunction with Palm Beach County. He stated what the study looked at was all the land adjacent to Indiantown Road that was not developed and looked at it as how retail would draw traffic. He pointed out it looked like it generated a certain volume of traffic on Indiantown Road and that is how the model was created and that is when it was determined how much traffic would be generated. Council Member Genco stated if you were to look at this, and she is looking at it from a logistical point of view, it looked like the increased traffic was going to come from Martin County, and Jupiter that put most of it north of them. She stated the collector roads, which would be going to the intersections were put in the study would primarily be west of Tequesta which means any traffic from the collector roads that were generated in Tequesta would be primarily Tequesta residents, with the exception of Turtle Creek and Bermuda Terrace. She asked Mr. Driscoll, knowing from his experience and doing the studies, would he say that the percentage increase and the service exceedance would be coming primarily from the Jupiter/Tequesta area that is in Tequesta or north which is in Martin County, and the new development that is occurring in Jupiter along Island Way. Mr. Driscoll stated what drives the trip generation is what the attractor is, the destination so the destination in this case would be retail office, Home Depot and Wal-Mart. He felt he could not answer her question exactly. Commissioner Marcus thought she could answer Council Member Genco's question. She stated what the Town of Jupiter has done was what Palm Beach County was asking their local communities to do, because they have these main thoroughfares that are over capacity, and what are they supposed to do when they have an adopted level of service of D. She explained there are two parts; first the ordinance that the County enacted, a countywide ordinance, is flawed. She pointed she has been trying for ten years to get them to change it because they have certain thresholds of projects they do not look at. She stated if you are a project of 500 units or less you don't get looked at and if you have two on a street you still don't get looked at, and the cumulative effect of that has caused an over capacity on Indiantown Road. She felt this is why they are in this situation today. She stated what Jupiter did was when they discovered that Indiantown Road, because of their ordinance being flawed, was going to get at this threshold they stepped in and were the first city, that wanted to tackle this problem, and with their help they can come up with mitigation efforts. She stated this will effect all of the side roads because once you figure out how to reduce the traffic then your intersection weights are a lot less. He felt 5 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 6 this will effect all the residents so it is a longer, bigger broader problem than they have been able to discuss but she felt this sets the stage about why they are here today. She stated that they have come to the table with a bunch of mitigation efforts that are going to improve Indiantown Road but she just wanted them to understand what the history of the Study was. Council Member Paterno wanted to clarify what Commissioner Marcus was saying is that their study only directly went to the intersections along Indiantown Road and took no other factors in as far as the residential areas, and basically trying to move the traffic and spread it out more so you have a better flow of traffic and less bottlenecks. Mr. Driscoll felt it was not spreading out the traffic. He gave an example, and felt Commissioner Marcus made a great point in trying to explain. He explained Indiantown Road and Military Trail, in the build out year would have failed. He stated the intersection would have failed, it would have had a level of service of `F' or `E'; and the delay at the intersection was 85 seconds. He stated that as a mitigation strategy they were able to add a second westbound left turn lane; by doing this they brought the intersection level of service to a `D' at under 55 seconds. He explained that was one of the mitigation strategies; another one would have been Alternate A 1 A and Indiantown Road and this intersection failed but by adding a northbound left turn lane, that brought that level of service for the intersection to a `D'. Similar to that is Central Boulevard, which has a lot of issues. He explained that Central has a lot of traffic and in addition to that you have • the fire station, so whenever there is any kind of public emergency the fire station preempts the signal and that messes up the intersection. He explained that at Central the developers of Parcel 19 WCI are funding a southbound additional right turn lane. He explained they are still working with the County on the northbound left turn lane. He explained right now there are dual left turn lanes and it is a little problematic and they are working with the County on how to handle this in the future. Mr. Driscoll explained the thought is that by extending Island Way to the south into Jupiter Park of Commerce they will actually relieve some of the traffic at Central Boulevard and Indiantown Road, potentially mitigating the need to put in a triple left turn there so this is one they are looking at as more of a wait and see. He explained the other mitigation strategy that has not been approved was to add some actual interchange modifications at Indiantown Road to handle a slip ramp or ramp to Island Way. He stated they are going through a tough process with FHWA and FDOT; they are still working on it and it is being done through George Webb's (County Engineer) office. He stated they are also trying to build a frontage road between Bush Road and Maplewood Drive which would act as a little bit of a reliever there, take some of the traffic off of Center Street and Indiantown Road. He explained this gives them a little bit of a flavor of the mitigation strategies. Commissioner Marcus stated the Town of Jupiter did a bond referendum to acquire environmentally sensitive lands and public lands to take trips off the road. She explained • they are working with Jupiter on some mixed use projects instead of the big box type projects, some that are less of a traffic impact. 6 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 7 Mr. George Webb, County Engineer, introduced himself and stated that Jupiter has been very successful. He thought he understood their questions and is going to try to answer them. He stated traffic engineers sat down around a table, from Martin County, Tequesta, Jupiter, Palm Beach County, and said what vacant properties are out here, what is going to happen on each of those vacant properties traffic wise, what could they grow to be, and generate traffic, where is that traffic going to go, and what roads is it going to go on. He stated they did this whole exercise; what they see today focuses on Indiantown Road but they looked at Island Way, they looked at U.S.1, they looked at all the other roads in the area and said `this is where we are putting it, how much traffic is going to from the existing traffic and the "to be built" projects coming in all these communities'. He stated this is what the exercise was and it was the Jupiter area. He stated the focus ended up being the two-lane roads were going to be fine as far as capacity standpoint but Indiantown Road was the problem, so the focus was on the problem. He mentioned he did not have the complete study with him but what they are looking for is if there are 6000 cars a day on Loxahatchee River Road a year ago what are they projecting on Loxahatchee River Road and Island Way when it is finished, is it 25,000 or is it 7,500 distributed between the two. He explained he was trying to get those numbers of what those projections are on the two main roads to give everyone a sense as to what the difference is of what is out there today from what we see; either way you do not need a 6 lane superhighway coming through there because both of those can handle the projections, but it is going to go up. Council Member Genco stated what she is seeing is Island Way and by opening up the bottleneck that you have on Indiantown Road what you may be doing is reversing some of the traffic that previously was coming through south on Country Club Drive to get to U.S.1 to go to Indiantown Road, to come back up, you now have reversed that traffic and people will go north on Country Club Drive to Island Way, and utilize that as an outlet. She explained, what concerns the Village is whether or not changing the direction of traffic flow was going to result in more traffic within the residential area because basically they are very concerned about the safety issues coming through the Village; as well as the commercial traffic which uses their bridge. Mr. Webb explained that Palm Beach County has a counting program where they put down the rubber tubes and people drive over them and they can track that and know directionally where and what time of day people are doing. He stated hopefully they will have done that before all the bridges got shut down but they will at least be able to compare and see what people are driving this year 2006 compared historically for 2005/2004, if there is a change in driving patterns and if so, how much. Commissioner Weberman asked if the study that was done included origin and destination information. Mr. Webb responded he thought the traffic engineers did it the same way they would do it, saying this is vacant parcel of land, it has commercial so we are going to project the current zoning in this area, and we have a sense that the split will be 75% going north and 25% going south. It was asked if there was an origin. Mr. Webb stated no. 7 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 8 • Commissioner Weberman thought they were coming off of a pretty big victory. He stated the tri-party agreement between Jupiter, Palm Beach County and Martin County that opened up Island Way, there were some people that were upset about some of the aspects of it, going back to before he was a commissioner. He felt Commissioner Mazcus would probably laugh about the threats to close Loxahatchee River Road and Martin County was going to do this, but they accomplished a big victory. He stated what they need to be careful of is besides geographical analysis of this region there are also political decisions. He stated between the four roads in this geographically constrained azea every road, if you shift traffic from one to another someone who gets a benefit, someone else probably gets an equal and opposite detriment. For example, there were Martin County residents that did not want Island Way extended, they did not want traffic going in front of their homes. In Palm Beach County there were people who wanted to get Martin County traffic off of Loxahatchee River Road, the Village of Tequesta wants to keep everyone off of Tequesta Drive and Martin County residents, Little Club and County Line Road, those residents do not want through traffic. Thus, he stated, they have to be careful and this is a good meeting for them to start talking about good solid information of what happens on one road does not happen to the detriment of somebody else. He felt what they needed to have now that the road was open, and involving all four parties; they need some origin and destination information. He noted when he heazs people saying that the opening of Island Way is going to cause more traffic to the north, he does not believe this to be true because there aze no detractors, no gas stations, no restaurants. He stated as much as he tells people that, because they do not have origin and destination information, everyone believes in their own belief, which will benefit their political decisions. He explained what he is hoping will come out of this is maybe they need to have the Regional Planning Council or somebody, and do away with some of the myths and fallacies and find out exactly where these people are going. He understood where the Village stand, and knows they want to get traffic, that they do not believe belongs in their town, out of the Village. He pointed out the Village has to remember that probably impacts someone else negatively somewhere else. He stated this is where he is on this, and he is actually glad they aze looking at improvements to Indiantown Road. He believed that arterial traffic should be on arterials roads, and residential traffic should be on residential roads. Mayor Humpage stated that when they spoke, and this may be totally an engineering issue of origin and traffic, and where folks were going, there is a calculation or equation that can be plugged into these azeas that would define the main roads. For instance, people who live in a particulaz azea who want to go to I-95 or the turnpike and to U.S.1; was there any calculation that we can throw into the mix. He knew what Commissioner Weberman was saying because now that Island Way was open to I-95, and you live west of the bridge here you go out Island Way instead of going through Center Street; that's just what people do. He asked again is there some kind of proportional calculation that you can figure that those roads are the attraction, the main arteries. U 8 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 9 Mr. Webb responded they have along-range transportation model but he would not use it for what Mayor Humpage is talking about. He stated that Commissioner Weberman is right, you are going to need, in essence, do a survey of drivers, stopping them on a street and asking where did they start from and where are you going. He stated to just get a sense of'the actual, even the traffic engineers saying they know what the traffic patterns are up there, but they will just have their opinions as far as if traffic is going to shift around and go different directions and so forth. He explained that they did do some of that, saying with this new road going in it is going to be more attractive so certainly they thought there would be a significant shift from Loxahatchee River Road and depending on if you are going to I-95 this is a better way to go than U.S.1. He stated they did some of that, was it the right number, traffic counts will see, but probably an actual O&D study, the origin and destination would give a better feel of exactly where people are coming from. He stated they do get that when they do census information, an average trip, but they get it once every ten years. Council Member Genco stated she thought Commissioner Weberman's concept would answer a lot of their questions. She also wanted to note that due to the recent change in the traffic pattern because of the bridge closing, it pointed out that there are a couple of intersections that are dangerous and probably will need more signage or stop signs and that is the intersection that comes out of Little Club on Country Club Drive. She explained that there were several accidents there, which were not pleasant, due to not enough stop signs, but it is up to an engineer to figure out what the problem is. She explained there also were accidents at the Island Way and Country Club Drive intersection so if they are going to be migrating some of the traffic west to Island Way and then to Indiantown Road, she felt that as a safety issue someone needed to study, and come up with some additional safety measures at both of those intersections. Vice-Mayor Watkins wanted to comment that the accidents that Council Member Genco was talking about were bad but she thought they were triggered by the excessive traffic. She stated they all learned how interdependent and interconnected they are when the bridge went down in Tequesta. She felt that if you did an origin and destination study you would find out that they have quite a bit more traffic on the west side in Tequesta. She noted people are going to Pratt that way now, and it really cuts a few minutes off of their trip. She felt it would be an interesting study, but noted she is hesitant to rely on traffic issues that happened because of the excessive traffic for the bridge being closed. Council Member Genco felt it was a good indicator that there is a problem, because Martin County has quite a bit of property north of Tequesta, will get developed, and that traffic will be coming through both of the intersections. She stated that is why by looking at the traffic patterns it would anticipate a problem, and try to head it off. Mayor Humpage asked if they found that when Island Way was opened, that there was significant traffic taken off of Central Boulevard and Loxahatchee River Road. Mr. Webb responded they have not done the traffic counts but they certainly heard from the • residents of Loxahatchee River Road saying it was a change and thanked them, but as for that amount, he did not have any hard numbers. 9 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 10 • Mayor Humpage referred back to Commissioner Weberman's comment that he was sure when that occurred the people in the Moorings were probably not happy. Commissioner Weberman wanted Mr. Gary Roberts, Martin County Deputy Engineer to speak regarding the residents concerns at Little Club. Commissioner Weberman stated they found there was no substantial change; he thought it was a good ten years since someone had done any good origin and destination work and he still hopes that at some point they will move in that direction. He felt that all four parties sitting at the table today would benefit from the information. Mr. Gary Roberts stated that Martin County is on a similar program to what Palm Beach County does for the traffic counting program. He explained they basically count all the major links at least twice a year. He explained once Island Way opened up, about four months after it opened up, they took a count to see what the traffic had been relocated from Loxahatchee River Road to Island Way and they took a count the last week of September, and the average over seven days was about 4,000 cars a day. He explained that nothing really had changed that much in Martin County but there was a shift from some of the connections getting down to Indiantown Road that used some of the other corridors, did shift over to Island Way, and they had some counts as high as 4,300. He explained there was that diversion from some of the existing corridors by the construction of this road. Council Member Paterno agreed the study was done in September, but asked about the other study that was done a year ago, that did it not show much higher volume in the winter. Mr. Roberts stated they will be taking a count again in those areas, and they try to do this every quarter and like to pick the peak tourist season on those major corridors. Commissioner Marcus wanted to ask Mr. Webb if they have seen any reduction on Country Club Drive, because she felt that was what Tequesta was interested in, how much of this diversion when they did the Western Corridor. She explained it brought them to the agreement that everyone was going to get a shift somewhere but it was going to be to the mutual benefit and she knew that Tequesta was worried that everyone was going to go down Loxahatchee River Road or Country Club Drive, and this would give them some diversion. She stated the road has not been open that long so she felt it is probably not a fair time to count until they get a little time where people are accustomed and aware of the fact that it is open. One of the things she heard this morning was they wanted to see the connection between Western Corridor and Limestone Creek but that already exists and is open; so they are opening as many venues so people can move around. She felt they would want to do all the analysis before they do the origin and destination; give it maybe six months, make sure it is established, let people know the road is there, and see how much the diversion created, where it all went, etc. The other part, the other discussions, she explained, has been about what type of traffic calming. She stated they have great police protection on their roads, everybody knows you need to drive 25 mph or else; others may want to put speed humps and things like to do the traffic calming. She stated that whatever traffic calming they choose to do at some point • probably needed to be done together. 10 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 11 • Council Member Paterno stated one of the things he has gotten since the bridge closed in the past week was residents on the west side and also on the east side of Tequesta bridge were very happy with the less volume of traffic. Unfortunately for the people in Little Club, it pushed all the traffic in Martin County from North Passage, Little Club, and all the Island Way, if they wanted to go to U.S.l, was through Little Club. He felt this was unfortunate for the people in Little Club. He thought there was another dynamic there, which was not a feeder road going through Martin County to U. S. I , so it forced it through Tequesta. He explained he thought this was one of the big concerns of their residents and he had heard from many of them, telling him that they were actually happy the bridge was closed because the volume of traffic, the kids actually went outside to play and they did not have to worry about it. He was just mentioning it because it was a big concern of their residents. Mayor Humpage explained that when the Village trys to stay neighborly up here in the north end and when they try to work with Martin County, is there any feasibility of a connector road connecting County Line Road to Island Way, is that feasible, where it dead ends into Little Club. Commissioner Weberman asked if he was talking about the infamous Girl Scout Club Road. Mayor Humpage answered yes. Commissioner Weberman explained Martin County Commissioners, going back to Doc Meyers struggled with that and the truth of the matter is there will never be a consensus in Little Club. He explained the Little Club Homeowners Association and the Little Club Condo • Owners Association will always be at odds so you have an equal and opposite group of people opposed to it. He stated even if they could reach a consensus then you have the issue of going through the State pazk wetlands, and you have all sorts of very strict state rules. He explained that when he first took office he did a study of the residents to what they wanted and surprisingly, it was about a 50-50 split with competing interests. He supposed the day he leaves office the new commissioner coming in would be asked the same question. He did not believe it would ever happen, is it possible but no, they will never reach consensus and there will always be enough environmental roadblocks, he believed, to stall it for yeazs. Mayor Humpage asked Commissioner Weberman if has ever talked with the state on this issue. Commissioner Weberman responded they pursued it a couple of times to see, what the state issues would be. He stated you have to work with the state pazk service, you have to get approval from Tallahassee and there is a huge wetland right there on the southern border of the park, and it is very difficult. He continued to say it is not impossible, but he would call it highly unlikely. He explained that for the Martin County Commissioners it puts all five commissioners, not only the south county commissioner, but all commissioners in an unwinnable situation of pitting resident against resident. Council Member Genco stated that one thing that remains a concern, with the way that the traffic patterns aze proposed and with the condition of their bridge being what it is, it is highly possible the Village of Tequesta, since they own the bridge, if they decide to limit truck traffic and weights on that bridge; she suggested having a weight limit of five • tons because it is safety issue. 11 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 12 • Commissioner Weberman responded they have already made some decisions. He stated their roads have already been posted for no thru trucks. He stated there is a problem with enforcement and if Tequesta took an action that caused some kind of reaction he would assume the south county residents would insist the Martin County Sheriff actually enforce the no thru trucks in Martin County to a higher level which could cause the Town of Jupiter or Commissioner Marcus with Loxahatchee River Road some unanticipated consequences. His caution to them was be careful what you ask for because you may do something that has an even worse equal and opposite reaction. Council Member Genco stated this is one thing that the Village is extremely concerned about because unfortunately they are being pushed to make that kind of decision. She explained that the bridge is a fixture that they cannot really do much about; even repairing it is still going to leave them prone. She explained that the bridge declined extremely quickly because of the fact that they have much heavier trucks utilizing it than the bridge was designed for. Commissioner Weberman understood what Council Member Genco felt but he wanted to caution her to read the agreements that transferred the bridge. He explained that she might think Council could do something, but actually may not be able to. Council Member Genco stated it is a good precaution but it was a big concern. Council Member Paterno commented that he read in the paper, back in October of last year, that there was a similar situation in St. Lucie/Martin County, they were trying to get • some funds because they were directly putting some of their developments right onto their roads. He felt that was a very similar situation that they have with Turtle Creek and all the north passage. He stated that because of not having that road going through the county line they are basically doing exactly what they did not want St. Lucie to do to them. He was not sure everyone realized that was going on in the south area. He stated the only way to get from the north passage because they will not go through Little Club because of the traffic situation there it forces them down Tequesta Drive. For instance, he stated they did a preliminary study, Turtle Creek, which is a Martin County development, puts 45% of the traffic on Country Club Drive. He stated when they did it last year, which is a big number they feed directly onto their street. Thus, they have no way of migrating the traffic or the truck traffic going into the Martin County development, they have to come through Tequesta. He stated their residents are very upset about it at this point, because the volume is picking up to the point where it is a problem. Commissioner Weberman agreed with everything Council Member Paterno said but what they found out and what most of them they knew anyway when talking about Port St. Lucie traffic coming onto Martin County roads, the way the state comprehensive planning laws are written, it is irrelevant where the traffic comes from. He explained what the deciding factor was, Level of service. He once again wanted to make a caution to them to check with their attorney. He stated there are certain responsibilities of having a publicly declared open road and when you put in what may be considered an artificial • restriction on it someone may be able to file an injunction. He stated he is not an attorney but they need to be real cautious when dealing with public declared roads. 12 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 13 Council Member Genco requested the Village Manager to look at their contract from the Department of Transportation on the bridge. She indicated she would definitely take under advisement what he has cautioned them about. However, she stated it is her personal opinion because of the heavy commercial traffic that she would support limiting the weight on their bridge. She felt it was a safety issue, they need to make it less for as long as they can until they can get it replaced and having heavy commercial traffic utilizing it, they are going to end up in the same situation in another two years. Commissioner Weberman agreed, saying he wanted to be known as the commissioner of caution. He explained there are certain responsibilities that come along with maintaining public roads. Council Member Paterno agreed, stating what they are asking for is cooperation among all of them, giving equal access to migrate the traffic out of these areas, for instance in Martin County, Tequesta and anywhere in Jupiter, but do it equally. Vice-Mayor Watkins stated it is a geographic issue. Martin County Vice Chair DiTerlizzi stated that Council Member Paterno mentioned Port St. Lucie traffic and this is in his district. He stated when he became a commissioner Palm Beach County said they were going to shut down Loxahatchee River Road and Martin County was telling Port St. Lucie they were going to shut down Murphy Road and the fact is the residents want relief. He stated they struggled with this north county issue and great divide on their board of agreeing with great debate whether to build the western • corridor. He stated they are inundated with 15,000 to 20,000 cars a day from Port St. Lucie coming onto their residential roads and they are going to spend the money to get them off those roads. He stated Port St. Lucie basically told them, `sorry, we really do not care, they are coming to serve you and they are buying their gas in your town and they are having lunch in your town, they work in your town, so you are enjoying the benefits of our residents and we're just getting them to live here', so it is a really difficult thing to do. He tells his residents they are public roads and as much as he does not like it, they look for relief where they can get relief and the relief is usually very controversial. He stated, just like Commissioner Weberman stated earlier, he knew the Boy Scout Road, he knew how controversial that is for Little Club, because he has heard both sides of that argument, especially in this area with the Loxahatchee River and both forks and understanding the topography of the park and all that; that is one of the big political problems they have is having to fmd solutions, they thought the Western Corridor in south county was the solution to a lot of these problems. He agreed one solution may create another problem. Council Member Genco stated she is in support of it. She wanted to make Commissioner DiTerlizzi aware that Tequesta is building a fairly large commercial plaza redevelopment, which she suspects will draw some of Martin County and some of Jupiter again through their village. She stated that if she looked at this and took all these bottles and put them upside down and one contained marbles for Martin County, one for Palm Beach County and one for the Village of Tequesta, all of them are going through one bottleneck down • there, she did not see that the residential traffic impact on Tequesta is going to be significantly different. The only thing that she saw that was of significance to them is 13 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 14 again the commercial part and when they do their long term planning of Jupiter, Martin County and Palm Beach County unincorporated. She hoped that he would consider the fact that they have a bottleneck and she does not see this changing anytime soon. Commissioner DiTerlizzi responded that when Council Member Genco mentioned long term planning, their comprehensive plan basically designated all of south county as residential, south of Jonathan Dickinson Park. He explained that they had no attractors. He stated their residents cannot go to the grocery store in Martin County, they cannot even get a gallon of gas in Martin County, south of the park. He stated they are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to what they have and they are pretty much built out other than the western area that is outside of their service boundary, at least their primary boundary and this is big problem for them. Mayor Humpage stated he liked the dialogue here and he really thought this was a unique problem because they have geographical obstacles, it is not just a town, a county, a village, and you have geographical issues. He stated they certainly do not want to let anyone put a road through the State Park. He stated this is an issue, and the water is an issue. He commented what they really are trying to do may be some other ways to attack this. He explained they have talked at council meetings; for instance the residential traffic, as Council Member Genco stated, is not one of the key issues but a lot of the commercial traffic is. He explained it beats up their roads so maybe an avenue they need • to look at is a permitting increase for commercial vehicles to help subsidize the costs of repairs and maintenance of the roadways. He thought they were are all just trying to be good neighbors, get the people where they want to go in the most expedient manner. Ms. Kim Roden, Martin County Engineering Operations Manager pointed out the use of speed humps. Mayor Humpage stated he does not like speed humps. Ms. Roden stated if you want a truck to stay off your road better than a weight limit, and having an officer sitting there, speed humps, they will get tired of them. She stated you do not have to have the nasty ones. Mayor Humpage stated that in Palm Beach County on Loxahatchee River Road it says just `bump', in Martin County it says `speed hump'. Ms. Roden responded that theirs were the first humps they ever did and they have been fine-tuned. She stated they could be detraction for truck traffic better than a weight limit. Council Member Genco stated she noticed in North Palm Beach where they did the traffic islands and those ended up severely restricting commercial traffic because no one wanted to slow down and the curves were too tight. She stated this is an option they have because the easement right outside Turtle Creek is pretty much belongs to the Village of Tequesta. Ms. Roden stated they did it off north of Donald Ross Road on Prosperity and on Palmwood and it actually has been somewhat effective. Mayor Humpage stated that Mayor Karen Golonka has done a lot of that in Jupiter, too. He asked her if those islands were working, calm the traffic considerably. Commissioner Don Daniels stated it slows them down. Mayor Golonka stated they are very tight and they did not have a lot to work with in the older neighborhoods. 14 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 15 Mayor Humpage stated they have covered agenda Items 1 and 2 together. He thought that Commissioner Weberman's idea to do the analysis was probably the best thing for them to do to get started to see the exact origin and where they are going. Commissioner Weberman wanted to defer to Commissioner Marcus, if she thought they needed more time but he thought it was a Regional Planning Council issue and he thought they were all members of the Regional Planning Council. Commissioner Marcus stated an origin and destination study was expensive, so her suggestion would be to wait until the Western Corridor is up there, people are more familiar with it, they do not have the bridge problems, see what the use of distribution is during the season, and then come back and look at whether or not they have to do that, or if there is still some uncomfortable traffic for some of the residentials; some of the local governments can look at traffic calming devices also because they are going to go somewhere, it is just what type of traffic you are going to have on the road. 2) Discussion of issues regarding the Western Corridor/Island Way development and traffic Covered under Item 1. 3) Zoning and code enforcement issues adjacent to the Village boundaries (i.e. • infrastructure/shared responsibilities) Mayor Humpage was not sure what the issue was regarding Code Enforcement. Village Clerk Carlisle stated Item 3 was made at the suggestion of Council Member Genco; it was a consensus of Council to place on this agenda. Council Member Genco stated she brought this issue up because the Village aesthetically, when driving through it is very seamless, and when you are looking at areas that are unincorporated Palm Beach County and Martin County, you do not realize that is not the Village. In fact, she stated, all the residents of those areas like to say that they live in the Village of Tequesta and they actually don't. She stated that when you go through those areas, which she does very frequently on her bike, she noticed that there are a lot of code violations. She noted there is a lot of construction in Martin County areas where people are putting additions on their houses without permits; she sees driveways being built without the necessary swales which is a water quality issue; and she sees a lot of work being done, both in the unincorporated Palm Beach County area and Martin County without code enforcement. She stated it is to the detriment of the Village because so many people think that they are areas of the Village. She indicated she would like to see Palm Beach County and Martin County be a little bit more diligent in some of the code enforcement issues. Again, it comes down to safety if you have someone doing additions or changing a garage into a room without the proper permits; it is a water quality issue when you have people doing driveways without permits and swales, it is an issue possibly where you have people replacing all the windows in their homes without permits. She stated they are losing tax • revenues, and the Village is being impacted adversely from it. 15 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 16 • Mayor Humpage explained he is a contractor and it is a tough call. He explained he travels azound, has a license, he pays all his insurances and when he sees work going on whether it be in the Village of Tequesta or in Jupiter by unlicensed personnel he calls it in. He stated he has his license and he needs to protect his industry. But he understands, too, because he works with both Martin County and Palm Beach County. He felt their code compliance people aze overwhelmed so it becomes a matter of dollars, how you get this resolved. He noted he has enough trouble getting through the inspection process, because the development is overwhelmimg. He understands Council Member Genco's comments but he understands it is tough to do this, and felt some assistance might come through some of the contractors to assist the county in identifying areas where you have work occurring. He felt it is not fair to have licensed contractors have work stolen from them to unlicensed people. Commissioner Marcus responded Mayor Humpage was correct; the County is huge and does not have enough code enforcement personnel. She commented their code enforcement is usually into redevelopment azeas and areas that have a history of all sorts of problems, not just illegal buildings but just like having a boat in your front yard type. She stated with Martin County it has to be a drive for any serious ongoing code enforcement issues due to the Pazk boundaries. One thing that she thought they could look at it is an interlocal agreement, giving the Village the jurisdiction to do code enforcement within those unincorporated boundaries of Palm Beach County and Martin • County. She stated if you have code enforcement right there, and you are a smaller area that gives you the ability to go it immediately. She was not sure how it affected different codes, but working without a license was certainly a problem. She believed the County could pay a portion towazds code enforcement, if it could get an additional code enforcement officer for the additional area. She stated this is something they could put on the table if everyone had an interest in doing that. Commissioner Weberman stated they had zero tolerance for unlicensed activity. He stated anyone observes something to call them and they will put it on a list. They are working hard and have some pretty good code enforcement officers who have a pretty high compliance rate. He stated that something that has happened that is very unsettling, because of the hurricanes, and he will not name names of the developments, they have some developments that instead of bundling up their debris, they are dumping it over the fence on the public right-of--way. He talked with their waste management people and they aze going to take a real hazd line on that. He spent a lot of time in South County, and if they observe something, call it in, if they need to follow up further, they will. He stated what most of the people aze seeing is the bundling up and dumping, the lazy yazd management people within the gated communities. Council Member Genco stated she sees a lot of that but she sees also construction code violations and when she is on her bike she does not have the time to right down the address. But what she wanted to ask of Commissioner Weberman, and she loved Commissioner Marcus' response, is if he would not delegate something to them, if they would have their code enforcement officers go on • some kind of schedule where at least twice a month they drive down through this area looking for violations, she would greatly appreciate it. 16 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 17 • Commissioner Weberman responded he was going to have Mr. Ballantye, the County Administrator speak with the Village Manager. He stated he is speaking for the entire Board of Commissioners and none of them want to see unlicensed activity going on; he stated they would look into it. Mayor Humpage stated one of the things they just got involved in, and he did not know if it was in Commissioner Marcus' jurisdiction or Mayor Golonka's jurisdiction, but he happened to be working one day and he was driving on Loxahatchee River Road or maybe it was on Pennock Point. He went by a large pile of debris and on this pile of waste was an orange iridescent sticker, stuck to it, placed there by Waste Management, and because it was a Waste Management sticker it said `This is not debris they will pick up, must be removed at owner's expense'. He stated they met with Waste Management recently and they have instituted that in the Village, they go by anyway, they will stick it on the pile if they do not pick it up and that allows their code enforcement officer to now follow that sticker, and that may help. He suggested they talk to Waste Management because there is no additional charge for that service. Commissioner Weberman again stated their county administrator would speak with the Village Manager to get more insight on Mayor Humpage's observations. Commissioner Doug Smith stated they do this in Martin County. Mayor Golonka commented on the orange stickers, that every so often they need to remind Waste Management they need to be doing this. She stated that when they instituted it in their area, it was great and then it • just fell off. Mayor Humpage stated that the change in personnel is tough, they keep changing drivers; he stated they keep in contact with Mr. Sabin so hopefully they will kick this issue. Mayor Golonka stated if the homeowner innocently did not know or the neighbor was wondering why something was sitting there, it just makes everyone a little happier. Mayor Humpage agreed. 4) Any Related Matters Commissioner Weberman wanted Mr. Roberts, Martin County Deputy Engineering Director to give the Village Council a briefing on some construction activity they will be doing in Turtle Creek in three or four weeks. Mr. Roberts stated the work to be done is a resurfacing project around the Turtle Creek area, around $100,000 worth of work, they are going to include some landscaping and improvements, particularly around the guard house area. He stated that since they do not really have a contractor on board yet the logical way to do is to require them to come in on Indiantown Road, up Island Way to Country Club Drive and then into Turtle Creek area, minimizing the impact on the other roads through the area. He stated the schedule right now, they are looking at sometime starting the middle of March and looking at 60-day period. He mentioned the way the asphalt and aggregate is going right now, he is not sure when they are going to get those materials and when they are really going to start. He stated it is really becoming a major issue and the dollar costs are escalating. . Commissioner Weberman envisioned that when the trucks actually come through, they will get some calls and they wanted to make sure they understood what it was, where 17 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 18 • they were going and what route they would be taking. Council Member Paterno asked if it was possible to open up a temporary gate for the trucks going into Turtle Creek, so they do not drag weighted materials through Tequesta. Commissioner Weberman stated this is private property. Mayor Humpage wanted to mention the bridge is now an issue, the parts are being manufactured and whether it is two weeks or whatever, he is not sure. He stated that when the materials get here and the cranes are brought in, they would close the bridge again in both directions for probably a week while they remove the two center spans and replace them. He stated they would give them as much warning as they can when they have the information but the slabs have to be onsite and the equipment has to be onsite. At that point in time it is more frugal to change both spans simultaneously than to try to do one then the other so they will have to close the bridge. Commissioner Weberman asked that the Village notify their engineering department. He stated they have a great way of getting information out; it is surprising how many south Martin County residents watch their MCTV channel. Commissioner Marcus wanted to make sure she understood that when they get ready to repave the road they are going to be bringing up the asphalt up Country Club and Tequesta Drive. Commissioner Weberman stated there is no other way to go. Commissioner Marcus asked how many trucks there were. Commissioner Weberman • responded seven total. Commissioner Marcus stated seven total over a couple weeks or a couple months. Council Member Genco stated sixty days. Commissioner Weberman stated seven days of actual work might take seven months. Mr. Roberts stated that is the entire construction period, which is the landscaping and some of the improvements around the guardhouse. Mr. Roberts stated they could probably go in and probably do the actual resurfacing within a day or two once they got the paperwork. Commissioner Marcus asked if that was the seven trucks. Mr. Roberts confirmed yes. Commissioner Marcus stated you could bring the other trucks in for the landscaping and stuff in the other direction. Mr. Roberts stated whichever way is best. Commissioner Marcus stated she thought Tequesta would like them to, if they have to bring the asphalt in one way that is one way but if you bring the landscaping and do the rest of it from the other side, that is probably best. Commissioner Weberman noted Mr. Roberts or the project manager would call Mr. Couzzo. He mentioned at this point he did not want them to be surprised, and they will work out any details they need to. Commissioner Marcus stated that their bridge, which was pre-planned to be closed. She stated the Loxahatchee River Road Bridge improvements at the residents' request was to be closed last year, but they postponed it to do some design features on it and so it ended up being closed this year. She stated it would be reopened in April. Mayor Humpage stated that the Village Manager just told him that the contractor has called and the slabs are en route for the Tequesta Bridge and they will be set up this • weekend. The bridge will close Sunday night at 6:OOpm and they will start Monday morning to replace the bridge. 18 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 19 • Commissioner Weberman stated that when he was walking in he had some residents ask him if they were going to be allowed to speak today and he was not sure if they were going to do that. Mayor Humpage stated he did not have a problem with that as long as they limit their comments. (Public Comment) Mr. Don Amato a resident of Little Club stated it was really great, as a club resident, to see all these folks together working under the direction to mitigate the traffic. He stated there are three concerns in Little Club and those aze traffic, traffic, and traffic. He stated they aze divided as a community but at some point the overall needs, and some did allude to it eazlier, that for the greater good that some point it becomes mute. The homeowners do put up with a brunt of the activities, the traffic coming through and they do understand there is an increase in traffic because there are more people going through. He stated there is new development going on in Tequesta, the new Publix, etc. He stated that Commissioner Weberman and himself respectfully disagree on the increase in traffic. He felt that with the heavy activity, the neaz gridlock conditions on Indiantown Road, a lot of people on Island Way aze going to say, `let's go to the Publix in Tequesta' and they are going to go through Little Club. The thing that he wanted to leave with them today is it is not a matter of moving the traffic here to there and that's it; their roads aze narrow, they aze as narrow as those in Tequesta, and they know better than he does that trailer trucks cannot navigate those roads and they cannot do it in Little Club. One of their residents • had a trailer truck come around in the east entrance to Little Club, and it had to go around into the other lane and with the traffic coming from the bridge being closed it had about 15-20 cazs in each direction stopped. He commented at this point unless someone from the state or the county is going to come in and buy up all the homes on Little Club Way and widen those roads something has to give. He knew there was a long history and he isn't as knowledgeable but not too far off on going through the south side of the pazk. Commissioner Marcus wanted to mention that their Code Enforcement Director, Terry Verner was present and if the Village Manager wanted to call them and let them know if there was any specific azeas they wanted the County to look into. Council Member Genco stated that Ms. Catherine Harding, the Village's Community Development Director, was present as well. Commissioner Marcus asked Ms. Harding to let Ms. Verner know where they might have some specific issues. 4) Commissioners/Council Members Comments Commissioner Weberman wanted to introduce their new County Administrator, Me. Duncan Ballantye, who is been with them for about four months. Vice-Mayor Watkins wanted to thank everyone for coming. She knew it was hazd to coordinate all these entities together and if everyone continued to work together she knew they would accomplish this. • 19 Minutes -Joint Workshop Meeting February 16, 2006 Page 20 IV. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 3:25 P.M. ,~ =. ~.. ~~~ Gwen Carlisle Village Clerk 20