HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes_Miscellaneous_12/09/1992_Fire-Rescue Task Force r
VILLAGE OF TEQUESTA
Post Office Box 3273 • 357 Tequesta Drive
Tequesta, Florida 33469 -0273 • (407) 575 -6200
3 e Fax: (407) 575 -6203
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T E Q U E S T A F I R E- R E S C U E T A S K F O R C E
M E E T I N G M I N U T E S
D E C E M B E R 9, 1 9 9 2
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The Tequesta Fire - Rescue Task Force held a regularly scheduled
meeting on Wednesday, December 9, 1992 in the Village Hall,
357 Tequesta Drive, Tequesta, Florida. The meeting was called
to order at 4:30 p.m. by Chairman Wade Griest: Task Force
members in attendance were: Chairman Griest; Vice Chairman
Robert Mortimer; Councilmember Ron Mackail; Dr. Stanley
Jacobs; Hal Hutchinson; Alec Cameron and Thomas Rodth.
Boardmembers Mervin Crockett and Sandy Linnan were not in
attendance at roll call. Mayor Earl L. Collings was also in
attendance. Staff members present were: Village Manager
Thomas Bradford; Village Clerk, Joann Manganiello; and Police
Chief Carl Roderick.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman Griest asked to: 1) make comments regarding public
input under Item II; and 2) under Item IV (C) to make comment
on the rich /poor of Tequesta Village and the firemen's union;
3) Boardmember Jacobs asked to read a letter into the record
under Item IV (C).
Boardmember Rodth moved to approve the Agenda as amended.
Boardmember Jacobs seconded the motion. The vote on the
motion was:
Wade Griest - for
Robert Mortimer - for
Ron Mackail - for
Dr. Stanley Jacobs - for
Hal Hutchinson - for
Thomas Rodth - for
Alec Cameron - for
The motion was therefore passed and adopted.
Recycled Paper
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9 1992
Page 2
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Chairman Griest suggested that the public in attendance be
allowed 20 minutes for questions after Commissioner Marcus'
and Chief Brice's presentation; and another 20 minutes for
questions after all Task Force business has been handled.
Councilmember Mackail moved that the above - referenced
suggestion be approved. Boardmember Rodth seconded the
motion. The vote on the motion was:
Wade Griest - for
Robert Mortimer - for
Ron Mackail - for
Dr. Stanley Jacobs - for
Hal Hutchinson - for
Thomas Rodth - for
Alec Cameron - for
The motion was therefore passed and adopted.
III. PRESENTATION BY COMMISSIONER KAREN MARCUS AND FIRE - RESCUE
ADMINISTRATOR HERMAN BRICE REGARDING PALM BEACH COUNTY EFFORTS
TO MAINTAIN CONTRACT WITH TEQUESTA
Commissioner Marcus and Chief Brice were pleased to be invited
by the Task Force to make a presentation. Commissioner Marcus
stated that it's the County's desire to keep Tequesta in the
PBC F/R system. She reported that the County Commission, at
their December 8, 1992 meeting, discussed spiraling
fire /rescue costs. She suggested that if one would take out
criminal justice costs and educational costs, then compare the
fire /rescue costs, it would be found that fire /rescue costs
probably have not spiraled as much as those. The ERU system
was also discussed at the Commission meeting, but did not make
it through the Board, for a variety of reasons, though it is
still on the table for discussion: there was a philosophical
dispute as to whether or not ERU is an appropriate measure for
providing fire - rescue service, and dollar amounts for
substantiation were not presently available. The commercial
interests would be extremely upset with what they would end
up having to pay: i.e., K -Mart in Tequesta would go from a
$10,000 assessment to a $33,000 assessment. The County
Commission decided to create a Task Force with a cross -
section membership to look at issues and make recommendations
on a business basis. The Task Force would have
representatives from three Chambers of Commerce: Jupiter/
Tequesta; West Palm Beach; and Boca Raton, as well as some
City representatives. This Task Force would bring back to the
County Commission a variety of options (hopefully within three
months) . Board direction was given to provide a shorter 'opt
out' window for cities.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9 1992
Page 3
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The Commission also discussed ways to keep fire /rescue costs
down, considering ways in which to finance fire /rescue capital
items. Commissioner Marcus was in support of financing all
fire /rescue capital costs.
Chief Brice agreed that PBC F/R is seeking solutions to
Tequesta's fire /rescue costs, as well as in unincorporated
areas. He also is supportive of financing capital costs. One
difficulty with capital financing is that fire /rescue is a
separate MSTU. One of the concerns has been how that
financing or bonding might take place. Chief Brice and the
County Attorney will be addressing the technical aspect of
that on December 10. Financing will level out the debt,
rather than doing the funding all in one year. Projecting out
capital and personnel needs will be more palatable.
What PBC F/R does, within its organization to control costs:
Last year a major restructuring of the management staff was
done to bring it in line with other departments of the same
size. In doing that, PBC F/R reduced the chief officer staff
and rank by twelve different ranks, eliminating one rank
entirely, in an attempt to flatten the organization to better
provide the service without the high administrative costs.
These issues continue to be addressed.
Other Issues: PBC F/R will bring before the Commission in
January a request to assess directly those in the PBC F/R
system who are charged by water utilities for fire hydrants.
If approved, $350,000 - $375,000 will be backed out of PBC F/R
Budget for next year.
Revisiting North County MSTU: Initially there were three
MSTUs, with the millage rate varying in each. Consolidation
took place in 1989, equalizing the millage rate across the
County, promoting advantages for operating a countywide
system. It was Chief Brice's understanding that Tequesta
wanted to consider looking at a regional system, covering from
Northlake Boulevard north to County Line Road and west to
Beeline Highway, to determine if there is a way for service
to be provided under MSTU would compare more favorably to what
those costs are today. PBC F/R has had discussion on, and
continues to consider, this issue.
It was Chief Brice's position that PBC F/R desires to be in
partnership with Tequesta, providing Tequesta with the service
they need at a cost which is acceptable to both the County and
the Village.
Boardmember sandy Linnan arrived at 5:08 p.m.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9, 1992
Page 4
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Boardmember Hutchinson asked Chief Brice if the $55M Bond
Issue is approved and financed, how much, and over what period
of time that $55M would be spent. Chief Brice answered that
would be a ten -year projection, with financing over the next
few years. Trucks are one of the capital needs that must be
addressed. Capital improvements can be offset partly by
impact fees. The $55M was PBC F /R's best projection of ten
year costs, which included some things which probably would
not be done on a short -term basis. Consideration is being
given to financing apparatus needs ($2 -3M) , alarm office ($2M)
and part of the 800mhz program ($4 -5M over time) over the next
few years. Commissioner Marcus explained that the
Commissioners continue to have an on -going commitment to look
at administrative costs for all departments. If financing is
approved, the money would be borrowed in phases, leaving only
an incremental impact on taxpayers. Boardmember Hutchinson
reported than an in -depth study was done for Orange County,
wherein a unique feature of that study was one in which the
closest fire station responds to a call. Mr. Hutchinson felt
Tequesta should consider this option.
Boardmember Crockett arrived at 5:22 p.m.
Commissioner Marcus pointed out that there are areas which
would take more and different equipment to respond to fires,
i.e., the Jupiter Hospital.
Chairman Griest asked why, out of 37 municipalities, only 10
participate in PBC F /R. Chief Brice responded that the cities
within the State of Florida grew up with providing their own
fire service. The trend now is toward a regional service
because municipalities don't want to build fire stations
across the street from one another, as well as independent
fire /rescue being a major cost. Chief Brice felt that what
is needed is a regional system which coordinates the
activities of the various city departments and the county,
establishing together a level of service as previously
discussed (i.e., the closest fire station responding to an
emergency scene) . Chief Brice stated further that the PBC F/R
stands ready to service Tequesta but would need to know by
late February or early March 1 93 whether Tequesta will be in
or out of the PBC.F /R system.
Boardmember Cameron stated that not all Tequesta residents
(i.e., Tequesta Gardens Condominiums) are interested in
pursuing ERU. Commissioner Marcus stated she had received Mr.
Cameron's letter regarding this issue and that those concerns
were raised at the County Commission meeting.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9 1992
Page 5
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Boardmember Rodth asked how a north county MSTU would change
anything from the way it is now. Chief Brice stated PBC F/R
is now doing a cost analysis with consideration to the
Tequesta proposed MSTU tax base. It appears to be between
$500,000 -$1M more tax base than the PBC F/R expenditure for
the MSTU. If Tequesta had its own Advisory Board as a
recommending body which would report to the County Commission,
the County would provide a level of service chosen by Tequesta
and others in the MSTU, trying to keep the cost factor down.
However, if there was a fire in the north county MSTU which
would require units from the south county MSTU, payback
provisions would need to be made. MSTU monies can only be
spent on MSTU.
Boardmember Rodth stated that the PBC F/R assessment to
Jupiter Inlet Colony is excessive. Commissioner Marcus stated
it's like a good news /bad news story, in that each must pay
the costs of the system (i.e., residents who have no children
still have to pay for the educational system). One citizen
in the audience stated that it should not be considered
unreasonable for municipalities to expect to pay no more than
their fair share for fire /rescue protection.
Commissioner Marcus left at 6:05 p.m.
Vice Chairman Mortimer asked if PBC F/R could give Tequesta
a cost factor for over the next 5 -10 years. Chief Brice felt
that if PBC F/R finances and gets a 2 -3 year contract with the
Union, it would be possible to make that projection
accurately. He stated also that if Tequesta stays in the
system, PBC F/R would be able to project the cost from next
budget year to three years out quite accurately.
Village Manager Bradford asked why the millage rate in the old
MSTU was less than other coastal MSTUs. Chief Brice answered
that there were more personnel expenses in the other MSTUs.
Boardmember Rodth asked if PBC F/R has any benefit from impact
fees. Chief Brice, answering affirmatively, explained that
the monies used to be divided up amongst the old MSTUs. Now
the impact fees will be used wherever the needs are in the
county, applying them to that part of the project that is
attributed to growth. Those fees are presently approximately
$1M, which will offset costs of capital.
Boardmember Rodth asked what happens when the millage cap is
reached. Chief Brice answered that two things could happen:
1) the Budget would have to be cut to the point of living
within the 3 mills; or 2) (as Mr. Brice suggests) pay for the
operating part of the Budget with ad valorem and pay for the
retirement of debt with ERU, spreading the cost.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9, 1992
Page 6
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Glenn Kloiber asked when PBC F /Rs figures from projection of
finance will be available for review, and will it be possible
to contract to restrict any increase. Chief Brice answered that
now that the State is no longer involved and the County has the
MSTU totally under its ordinance, a formula under discussion for
that Ordinance is to have a statement that the charge to a
municipality will never be more than the cost of operation of
their particular station, which would give some sort of
assurance. This issue needs further exploration. He stated
further that a handle on the Budget regarding preliminaries would
be available in mid - January 1 93.
Don Seay asked what PBC F/R stance will be if Tequesta becomes
independent. Chief Brice answered that the PBC F/R will maintain
a presence at Station 11. One option would be to keep an ALS
pumper with paramedics on it (three people on one truck).
Councilmember Mackail asked if PBC F/R can provide back up
service to Tequesta it Tequesta is independent. Chief Brice
felt it would be unfair for county taxpayers to be expected to
provide a service to a municipality with a lower cost fire
service who have perhaps a truck with one man on it.
Councilmember Mackail asked Chief Brice to explain what the
problems are with Palm Beach Gardens, if any; there is a
difference in costs when comparing independent fire /rescue for
Tequesta to stay with PBC F/R - concerns are building - why has
PBC F/R not responded to these concerns of such municipalities
before now? Corporate America has scaled down and in some cases
still offers quality service at less cost; why is it PBC F/R
cannot do the same, and what concrete solutions can be given?
ERU appears to be a smokescreen which does not address the
issues. What will the County do to take ownership of these
problems. Chief Brice commended the Village Council for their
protection of Tequesta taxpayers. He felt PBC F/R was in the
ballpark, if not better, for what they charge when compared to
other systems the same size. Though Chief Brice felt the
Tequesta Fire /Rescue Report was excellent in terms of what was
covered, he felt Tequesta, as an independent fire department,
would face the same problems (i.e., escalating costs, increased
staffing) which PBC F/R now faces. Though Tequesta will have
less administrative time spent, staff will need to be added to
do the things which the County now does for Tequesta; a system,
even in Tequesta, cannot be managed with the fire chief being the
fire marshall and the training officer and responding, as well.
When more realistic costs are plugged it, it would be comparable
to what Tequesta now pays to the County. Tequesta now receives
a higher level of service because of the backup and with no
bother, in terms of administration. Cost containment is always
a concern with the County.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9, 1992
Page 7
-----------------------
Councilmember Mackail asked if the County could hold the line
on their costs. Chief Brice urged the Village to stay in one
more year to explore options, stating that there is, however,
an anticipated increase in costs for next year. He stated
further that the only additional station PBC F/R is
considering is a temporary facility in The Acreage which will
probably be totally paid for with capital from impact fees.
Any requirement for increased staffing would be for that unit.
Boardmember Rodth asked if Tequesta stays in for one more year
only, and the County runs up large debts during that time,
will the Village have any responsibility to that debt. Chief
Brice stated that he would hope the answer would be that the
Village would not take any assets with them and would not
inherit any liabilities. However, that would not be his
decision, but a policy decision.
Boardmember Cameron left at 6:55 p.m.
John Bartlett asked how communications could be improved
between PBC F/R and Tequesta. Village Manager Bradford felt
that communications were good, but that there is a feeling in
Tequesta that it is difficult to assimilate PBC firefighters
as being Tequesta's own firefighters. Mr. Bradford questioned
whether an Advisory Board would be the right answer.
Boardmember Hutchinson left at 7:10 p.m.
Chief Brice left the meeting at 7:10 p.m.
IV. DISCUSSION OF FIRE /RESCUE MATTERS
A) Task Force Comments on Wackenhut Proposal.
1) Boardmember Jacobs felt that Wackenhut was supplying a lot
of service for the cost, but felt that their quote for labor
costs were too high. He felt Wackenhut was offering more than
Tequesta needed.
2) Boardmember Hutchinson made reference to a statement made
by Mr. Roy Gupton, Director of Fire Services for Wackenhut,
who stated in reference to the Tequesta Fire Rescue Report,
that in considering the apparent liability risks involved in
substandard and NFPA recommendations, he believed the
Wackenhut proposal's staffing to provide better services than
currently provided to Tequesta, while maintaining and
enhancing Tequesta's ISO rating. Mr. Hutchinson agreed with
that statement. He felt further that the Wackenhut proposal
was better than the Tequesta Fire Rescue proposal, but that
Wackenhut's staffing levels were below what Tequesta has
presently.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9, 1992
Page 8
-----------------------
3) Boardmember Rodth had no comment, except that he agreed
with Boardmember Jacobs.
4) Vice Chairman Mortimer was surprised at the number of
personnel recommended by Wackenhut's proposal, and the amount
of money for financing. He felt, however, it was something
at which to look.
5) Boardmember Cameron felt the Wackenhut proposal merely
reinforces the realization that the major expenses would be
overhead and equipment. It was his suggestion that the Board
consider no further the Wackenhut proposal.
6) Councilmember Mackail felt the Wackenhut proposal was a
good one; was impressed with Wackenhut's ability to come on
line within a six -month period; he disagreed with Boardmember
Hutchinson regarding staffing levels, but had not yet come to
a final decision regarding the Wackenhut proposal.
7) Chairman Griest was not in favor of the Wackenhut proposal
since he felt the proposal was too costly and would not help
Tequesta to maintain control of its own destiny.
The Board concurred that they would come to a final conclusion
regarding the Wackenhut proposal at the next Fire Rescue Task
Force meeting.
B) Task Force Comments on Revised Tequesta Fire Department
Budget:
Boardmember Crockett suggested, and the Board concurred, that
the Tequesta Fire Report should not be considered to be
revised, but merely a re- calculation based on a few
assumptions. With the Tequesta Report and the Wackenhut
Report, a perimeter is acquired, with a higher case and a
lower case and Mr. Crockett felt it could not be more
reasonable than that.
Boardmember Jacobs felt, after studying all data, that the
Tequesta Fire /Rescue Report was all that was needed.
Boardmember Rodth- felt a maximum and minimum cost had been
received from two data points and felt comfortable with the
two data points for comparison purposes.
Vice Chairman Mortimer, Boardmember Linnan and Councilmember
Mackail had no comments at this time.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9, 1992
Page 9
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Chairman Griest felt comfortable with the Tequesta Fire Rescue
Report.
C) Boardmember Jacobs read into the record a letter from
North County Ambulance (NCA) stating that Boardmember
Jacobs had never served on the NCA Board.
V. ANY OTHER MATTERS
Village Manager Bradford stated that the next Fire Rescue Task
Force Meeting is scheduled for December 16, 1992 at 4:30. The
Agenda will include:
o Fire Chief Boone from Lake Park will make a presentation
to the Board.
o North County Ambulance is ready to respond in writing,
per the Board's previous request, for indicating the
dollar figure for each fiscal year into the future, or
indicating the barometer which they suggest be used to
increase. The contractual format will soon be finalized
for the Board's information.
Mr. Bradford felt the next meeting might very well be the last
meeting of the Fire Rescue Task Force at which the Board
should determine their recommendation to the Village Council.
Boardmember Rodth reported that Jupiter Inlet Colony (JIC),
on December 8, passed a Resolution which basically favors the
service that would be provided by a joint Tequesta Fire
Department, along with JIC, as long as a mutually acceptable
contract could be developed, and with guarantees of no
increased charges. He stated further that spending $58,000
for startup costs would not appeal to JIC. JIC would prefer
to be assessed through the same method of taxation used in
Tequesta. Mr. Bradford asked that Mayor Porto send a copy of
the Resolution, along with a cover letter from the Mayor, to
Tequesta, for the Village's review before the next Fire Rescue
Task Force Meeting.
VI. CITIZENS COMMENTS
Betty Nagy read a note she had prepared stating she will not
be silenced from making public comment, whether or not those
comments are approved or disapproved by the various Village
Committees and Village Council.
Fire Rescue Task Force
Meeting Minutes
December 9 1992
Page 10
----------------- - - - - --
Don Seay felt it was too soon to terminate the Fire Rescue
Task Force and suggested that a detailed analysis of costs be
done. Councilmember Mackail assured Mr. Seay that there would
probably be workshops which will continue to cover issues of
concern.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
There being no other matters before the Board, Boardmember
Crockett moved that the meeting be adjourned. Boardmember
Rodth seconded the motion. The vote on the motion was:
Wade Griest - for
Robert Mortimer - for
Ron Mackail - for
Mery Crockett - for
Dr. Stanley Jacobs - for
Thomas Rodth - for
Sandy Linnan - for
the meeting was adjourned at 8:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
; ',.;i L..,I w4 'jam . ` i / ✓ �� A9 4 to
Fran Bitters
Recording Secretary
Date Approved:
ATTEST: `
J ann Manganie
Village Clerk