HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes_Miscellaneous_04/02/1993_Public Safety Committee e
VILLAGE OF TEQUESTA
Post Office Box 3273 • 357 Tequesta Drive
Tequesta, Florida 33469 -0273 • (407) 575 -6200
3 Fax: (407) 575 -6203
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V I L L A G E O F T E Q U E S T A
P U B L I C S A F E T Y C O M M I T T E E
M E E T I N G M I N U T E S
A P R I L 2, 1 9 9 3
I. The Tequesta Public Safety Committee held a scheduled meeting
at the Village Hall at 357 Tequesta Drive, Tequesta, Florida,
on Friday, April 2, 1993. The meeting was called to order
at 9:00 A.M. by Chairman Joseph N. Capretta, with Co- Chairman
Ron T. Mackail in attendance. Also in attendance were Village
Manager, Thomas G. Bradford, Village Clerk Joann Manganiello,
and Police Chief Carl Roderick.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Agenda was approved as submitted.
III. INTERVIEW OF FIRE CHIEF APPLICANTS
A) B. Val Williams, Assistant Fire Chief, Town of Palm Beach
(Retired).
Co- Chairman Mackail: Do you feel a fire chief should be an
administrator or should he be a working integral part of the
operation?
Williams: The chief should take an active part at the onset.
Once the department is established and running smoothly, the
chief's activities should be more administrative.
Mackail: What is your experience with high -rise and
structure -type fires?
Williams: In Palm Beach, where my tenure is, there are many
high- rises, though Palm Beach has never sustained any serious
fires. Most buildings are sprinkled and have adequate fire
protection, which enables the fire department to make the best
response. Not being familiar with Tequesta Fire Codes and how
old Tequesta high -rises are, I could not be sure what kind of
fire protection Tequesta has, but I don't particularly foresee
a problem, as long as they meet the Palm Beach County
requirements.
Recycled Paper
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 2
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Mackail: Have you ever been involved in the making of a fire
department from its beginning?
Williams: No, sir. Only in class. But it peaks my
interests, since it is a once -in -a- lifetime opportunity.
Mackail: Have you ever fired an employee in the fire
business? If so, was there a civil service hearing, any
problems, and what was the outcome?
Williams: Palm Beach does not have a civil service as far as
employees are concerned. I have really never had anyone
fired, but have disciplined and had to recommend probation for
a period of time. I have been involved with the union for
twelve years in Palm Beach. I firmly believe if the Chief is
selected carefully, and that individual uses care in the way
he deals with the firefighters, there would be no need to be
concerned regarding the formation of a union.
Mackail: Have you ever been involved in the preparations of
budgets of fire departments?
Williams: I have assisted but have never done one on my own.
I know the process.
Mackail: If we hired you today, knowing that Tequesta has
looked at several scenarios (i.e., 3 men /shift, 4 men /shift
with 2 /paramedics, dual response with Martin County, contract
with North County Ambulance (NCA) for paramedic support) what
would you consider as ideal for the Village of Tequesta and
how many employees per shift would you envision to operate the
department?
Williams: Either scenario has not problem, but three
firefighters on a shift is very thin, especially when
maintaining two pieces of apparatus. The Lieutenant would
have to make the call as to which apparatus to take on a call.
A fourth person could bring a ladder truck when needed, or an
extra engine. A fourth man also gives extra manpower.
Mackail: How do you feel about constant training?
Williams: It's absolutely necessary. I actively maintain my
own training.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 3
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Mackail: How do you feel about computers and using computers,
such as Word Perfect, correspondence, and keeping up with
state -of- the -art equipment?
Williams: I have a 386 and a 486. I don't use Word Perfect,
but I use Word Star, and have created many spreadsheets.
Chairman Capretta: What do you think the chances are of
Tequesta Fire Department being operational by the end of
September?
Williams: That deadline would not be difficult if the
equipment was brought on board as soon as possible.
Mr. Bradford explained that the firefighters and first
equipment is scheduled to arrive by July 21.
Capretta: If Tequesta has a choice between a regular back-
up agreement and a dual back -up agreement with Martin County,
which would you choose for the best response time and what is
the logic behind it?
Williams: With a 4/2 scenario and contracting with NCA, the
dual - backup is a good concept. I believe the dual backup (or
automatic aid) is going to happen in the future not only in
Palm Beach County but across the country, because of budgetary
constraints. I believe municipalities need to start
cooperating to complement each other, instead of competing.
Remember Martin County maintains a paramedic on their ALS
Pumper.
Capretta: NCA is here and trained, financially and
technically in good shape. The only advantage of Tequesta
having its own paramedics would be the cross - training. How
do you feel about that trade -off?
Williams: I am not sure Tequesta could not provide the same
expertise as NCA with as good, or better personnel /equipment.
I believe Palm Beach has a good, if not better, equipment and
personnel as NCA, but they have a top -notch EMS coordinator
who makes sure it operates properly. Cross - training is
standard.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 4
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Mackail: How do you feel about volunteer firefighters?
Williams: Palm Beach does not have volunteers. I am not sure
how many Tequesta should have. If Tequesta had 15 volunteers,
I would say do it. Paying volunteers is a good encouragement.
The concept of using city employees for volunteers is good for
8:00 -5:00, but most fires occur after 5:00 p.m. Consideration
would have to be given as to where the volunteers live and
their response time. However, it's a concept that a lot of
municipalities are missing out on.
Mackail: If you're still employed, why would you come to
apply for this position?
Williams: I am employed with South Tech only as an adjunct
instructor only because I want to be. I am not an 8:00 -
5:00er and not tied down.
Village Manager Bradford: What is it about you, your
personality, drive and goals that makes you want this job and
why you believe you are well - suited for it?
Williams: I believe the highlight of any career firefighter
would be to be a Chief. This unique opportunity to build a
department from scratch, to be involved in the hiring of the
personnel, hand - picking the apparatus, write the rules,
regulations, policies and procedures, is just fantastic. I
would not be able to live with myself if I did not at least
try to get this job. The chances of having another
opportunity such as this are very slim.
B) James M. Weinand, Assistant Fire Chief, City of Stuart.
Mr. Bradford introduced Mr. Weinand, stating that he was
born in Canton, Ohio, and explained that he has worked
for the City of Stuart for 18 years where he is currently
the Assistant Chief.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 5
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Co- Chairman Mackail: Do you feel a fire chief should be an
administrator or should he be a working integral part of the
operation?
Weinand: I feel it has to be both - you must be able to
separate it. In order to get the people to work for you, you
must show them that you can still do it. I'm all for doing
that. But, when you get to a fire scene, the Chief must take
administrative control. Otherwise, there is chaos. As far
as training, the Chief should get right in there with his men.
Mackail: Have you ever fired an employee in the fire
business? If so, was there a civil service hearing, or any
problems, and what was the outcome?
Weinand: I have been to approximately six Arbitration
Hearings where it goes through special masters. As far as
firing an individual, I have not personally done so, but we
did do that when I was Assistant Chief. We went through a
Review Board.
Mackail: Having read through the Tequesta Fire Department
Proposal, what do you feel is the biggest plus of that
proposal?
Weinand: The biggest plus is the opportunity for a quality
system from the onset. The system will not have to be
changed. Hand - picking the best personnel is a big plus.
Dollar -wise the proposal is okay, but it appears to be
underfunded in some areas and overfunded in some others.
Mackail: How do you feel about firefighters interacting with
the community?
Weinand: Every firefighter has to be a "good neighbor ". If
batteries need to be replaced in smoke detectors, they are
glad to do it. There must be a strong interaction with the
community.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2 1993
Page 6
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Mackail: As far as resources are concerned, are you fiscal -
minded regarding waste? The Budget process is important.
Tequesta has enjoyed not having peaks and valleys in putting
together its ad valorem base, while other communities are
experiencing 13 -20% increases.
Weinand: For the last 5 -6 years, I have put the Budget
together for Stuart, going through the Finance Department,
City Manager, and presenting to the Commission. Our Budget
has decreased over the past three years. We have expanded
services, but have found alternative funding. I believe it
is not necessary to increasingly spend more money; I believe
also the old philosophy of "if you don't use it you'll lose
it" is wrong. Conservation and accountability must be
practiced from the start.
Mackail: What would you suggest is the best scenario for
Tequesta: 3/2; 4/2 or in -house EMS?
Weinand: I could not give a fair answer since I have not had
opportunity to look at everything that is involved with the
Tequesta community. I believe the back -up support from Martin
County is a must. I would not recommend that Tequesta
completely divorce itself from Palm Beach County, but put them
on a last- resource list. Regarding staffing, I believe
Tequesta should start with four firefighters because 1) if
Tequesta backs -up with Martin County, the same complement of
men could be run into Martin County as Martin County would be
sending to Tequesta (which is three) , keeping one in -house for
coverage; 2) Tequesta has a large potential for fast fire
spread because of the many wood shake shingle houses. If a
fire is not immediately contained, house after house will be
lost. NFPA recommends 13 people on the initial scene; ICMA
recommends 16. A four -man staffing would give Tequesta a
better operation.
Mackail: How much involvement have you had with high -rise
fires?
Weinand: Stuart is limited to 50 feet, so there are no real
high- rises. But, a high -rise fire is no different than a
four -story fire. The firefighter still must go up the stairs
to take the water up. A high -rise is merely a little bit
higher, that's all.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 7
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Chairman Capretta: Regarding risk and protection, what would
you say is financially the best agreement and the best
agreement for the best response time for Tequesta to have,
since the most risk here is medical, not fire.
Weinand: It is necessary for Tequesta to look at its
resources. The contract with NCA is not necessarily a sweet
deal for Tequesta. Tequesta could have its own in -house
paramedics for only $2000 more dollars, with the same level
of staffing. What was not taken into account was offsetting
revenue. North County gets $55,000 in user fees on top of
what Tequesta would pay them, making the whole package to NCA
approximately $221,000. I would not recommend such an
approach for the first year, since it will be hard enough to
get the Department up and running by October 1. If Tequesta
chooses the 4/2 scenario, that fourth individual could be made
a paramedic and run an ALS engine out of Tequesta for that
back -up coverage that is a concern. The concerns should be
regarding the Village of Tequesta first, Martin County second,
and everything else on the outside after that. But, cover the
Village first.
Mackail: How do you feel about volunteer firefighters?
Weinand: You've got to have auxiliary. I know Tequesta is
concerned about its ISO rating, but I think you will have a
better ISO rating than you have presently. An ISO rating
hinges heavily on manpower, as well as your water distribution
system. As long as the number of the volunteer force is not
greater than the on -duty manpower, ISO will give credit of one
person for every three volunteers, (i.e., 15 auxiliary people
- ISO gives credit for 5 additional people).
Capretta: Do you agree city employees could be volunteers?
Weinand: I would be concerned about what FLSA would say.
That could be construed as overtime. There are lots of ways
to build up a force: 1) require them to work a certain number
of shifts per month; 2) if housing existed which was big
enough to be used as a bunk room, college students could be
offered free housing in exchange for being a volunteer
firefighter; 3) agree to pay for the firefighter education of
those graduates who want to become firefighters in exchange
for volunteer work. If incentives are built into the program,
people will be drawn out.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2 1993
Page 8
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Capretta: What is your experience regarding Codes and Fire
prevention?
Weinand: Codes are important; along with that, just getting
out to do the inspections is equally as important. Early
detection is key to small fires. The fire prevention is a
must. It is as necessary to gain a rapport with the business
community as it is with the residents.
Capretta: Why would an Assistant Chief in Stuart be
interested in coming to Tequesta?
Weinand: I am nearly topped out in Stuart. However, what
intrigues me most is the historical part and the challenge of
this opportunity. I need a challenge. The excitement of
being responsible for start a fire department will go down in
history to the grandchildren.
Capretta: How do you do training in a small community with
a small department?
Weinand: There are several different levels of training.
Burn training would have be to done outside the community.
Tactical maneuvers on buildings can be done in a big shopping
center with a big parking lot. It is necessary to have an
acre of asphalt when laying out hose and setting up
operations. There is also a lot of classroom training. I
believe training should take place a minimum of two hours per
day. Volunteer training can usually only take place at night.
Capretta: What do you estimate the odds are of getting our
own fire department operational by September 30?
Weinand: It is feasible, but not an easy task. Getting the
equipment in will be the biggest problem. Tequesta's starting
salary range for firefighters is high ($22,000), so applicants
will be those who have been in the system for a few years.
Stuart starts at $19,200 and Martin County starts even lower.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 9
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village Manager Bradford: Why do you think your
personality /management style is such that you are well suited
for this job?
Weinand: I am a firm believer in the quality management/
quality service concept, taking input from the bottom
employees to the top employees and make up performance
specifications. If we find people not performing the way the
specs read, then it would be necessary to change the
specifications. I am also a firm believer in participative
management, having an involvement with the people. Tequesta
will be a small department. If employees are not happy, there
will be a turnover. Applicants won't be coming here for the
excitement, since the city will not be running that many calls
- they are coming here for the money, and they have to feel
involved.
C) Jim Boone, Fire Chief, Town of Lake Park. Village
Manager Bradford introduced Mr. Boone as a native
Floridian from Venice, Florida with a broad base of
experience, working for the City of North Miami, Metro -
Dade, Palm Beach County, Investigator for Florida State,
and currently Fire Chief in Lake Park.
Co- Chairman Mackail: Do you feel a fire chief should be an
administrator or should he be a working integral part of the
operation?
Boone: I feel a fire chief should be active and aggressive
in the training of his people and work very closely with them
in getting the job done. It makes for a better work product
and better understanding. It is necessary to be both an
administrator and "hands -on ".
Mackail: Have you ever fired an employee in the fire
business? If so, was there a civil service hearing, or any
problems, and what was the outcome?
Boone: I have been involved in the firing of an employee and
have been through a civil service hearing. The most recent
concerned the demotion from an officer's rank back to a
firefighter's rank. The others I've been involved with
concerned suspensions.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2 1993
Page 10
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Mackail: Which scenario should Tequesta consider to give it
the level of service it is looking for?
Boone: The administrative side should be first considered.
ALS costs are very expensive. One advantage to having your
own in -house is better quality of service, dual qualification.
However, when a fire call comes in which has rescue
requirements, it could present problems. If the dollar value
is worth it to the citizens of Tequesta, recognizing the
expense, there would be a better quality of personnel, direct
control of quality of service, etc.
Mackail: There is a reduction in fires due to advanced
technology, while the need for EMS services has continued to
grow. I believe there is a big advantage in an independent
fire department which can increase or decrease wherever the
need is for the community.
Boone: Lake Park now runs BLS. Since the collapse of Inter
City, a contingency plan puts support in there from the
County. As of March 8, the Commission approved the hiring of
personnel to support Lake Park's BLS service. When hiring
firefighters, a city should look at the certification of
firefighters as EMTs. The Medic step is above that. There
is always a way of backing up the first ALS unit with EMTs on
a pumper.
Mackail: How do you feel about your men being involved with
the community?
Boone: Firefighters are in the people business. That's first
and foremost.
Mackail: Have you ever built a fire department from its
beginning?
Boone: No, sir. I have given considerable thought to it, but
do not personally know anyone who has done so. I think it
would be fun. There is no doubt in my mind whether or not I
could do it, but it does take teamwork.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 11
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Mackail: I would like to see the Fire Chief not only prepare
an annual budget, but do a 5 -year forecast as well. Tequesta
has enjoyed a very level ad valorem base and I would hope that
would be the same philosophy of Tequesta's Fire Chief.
Boone: The fire department in Lake Park has done well with
their budget. There have been no increases in the last three
years, and last year we stayed beneath the rolled back rate.
It's important to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
If a municipality does not maintain now, they will pay later.
Mackail: How do you feel about volunteer firefighters?
Boone: At the present time, Lake Park as 10 career people and
17 volunteers. We have an incentive program whereby a
volunteer is paid a given amount the next six months for the
performance in attending training and alarm responses for the
previous six months. Fourteen of our people are going to draw
that incentive pay this time. People can be dedicated to the
fire service, but the Fire Chief and the career employees make
those people feel wanted, needed, and a part of the group -
a real team. The volunteer fire force in Lake Park gives Lake
Park the capability to combat or not to combat fires.
Volunteers make good career men. Leadership makes the
difference.
Mackail: Why do you want to come to Tequesta?
Boone: I like Tequesta. I worked in the Jupiter - Tequesta
area for three years; my son lives in Jupiter. I would like
to move to Tequesta.
Chairman Capretta: Do you feel a Tequesta Fire Department can
be up and running by September 30?
Boone: From a fire protection point of view, it could be
done. However, new equipment takes 6 -12 months for delivery.
Demo units are available. The Village needs to hire pre -
certified firefighters.
Public safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 12
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Capretta: Tequesta is relatively small geographically with
most of the risk to be protected against being in the medical.
Tequesta needs to consider a back -up agreement with Martin
County. We need to be concerned about how far we are willing
to go into Martin County. Would you agree that an automatic
response back -up agreement is best?
Boone: It might behoove you to look at it in two ways. If
you talk about automatic response to a brush fire as opposed
to a structure fire of some relative distance, then you would
have to work very closely with the people on the engine from
Martin County as to when they arrive there on automatic
response. If they do not have a problem which requires two
engines, immediately cancel that other engine, which
immediately turns that unit around and brings it back into the
Village. Brush fires can be small things or they can be
devastating, and that' s going to take some people on the scene
to determine that. We do not roll in Lake Park until someone
arrives to man the station. We do not abandon the Lake Park
station. I think Martin County experiences lots of brush
fires and it could empty your station for long hours. Days
can be spent fighting a brush fire. The farthest away that
Lake Park travels for back -up is 4.5 to 5 miles.
Capretta: Tell me about your experience regarding fire
prevention, public relations, etc., and what type of program
do you feel Tequesta should have?
Boone: I came from under a Fire Chief, when I was growing
up in fire service, who felt that when you reached that first
level of promotion, you made the tour of the various
responsibilities of the Fire Department, one of them being the
Fire Prevention Bureau. Ultimately, I made three other
transfers into there, including Plans Review, Fire Prevention
work in the District -- I was running the entire north end of
Dade County when I left the Fire Prevention Bureau, with
approximately 18 people working under me. I was with the
State Fire Marshall's Office where I did inspection work. I
was with the County for 3.5 years doing inspections. When I
joined Lake Park, they did not have a formal fire inspection
program. Now, all firefighters are certified as fire
inspectors, who perform by assignments. Even the Chief's aide
is a certified fire inspector.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 13
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Village Manager Bradford: what is it about your personality/
management style that makes you well suited for this job?
Boone: I am task - oriented. I prioritize my work well. That
will be very important to formulating a schedule of events and
to reach those goals. I am not an 8 -5 man. Very seldom do
I leave at 5:00 p.m. But one must put the time in to get the
job done. Dedication is important.
Village Manager Bradford: How would you describe your style
of management?
Boone: I am a people - person. You lead people - not push
them. Participative management is important. Listening is
important.
IV. ANY OTHER MATTERS
Village Manager Bradford stated he had a feel, in his mind,
of the top candidate and how they are ranked in order. He
urged to Committee to think over these interviews until
Monday, April 5, considering the pros and cons, and he would
receive their thoughts on Monday for a recommendation to the
Village Council. Chairman Capretta felt all three candidates
were well qualified and that the Village could not go wrong
in selecting either.
Public Safety Committee
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1993
Page 14
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V. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the Committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 11:35 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
"—A44c,' ? Z
Fran Bitters
Recording Secretary
ATTEST:
Joan Man anie to
Village Clerk
DATE APPROVED:
/3 , / 99-3