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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes_Miscellaneous_03/20/1996 F � f�� VILLAGE OF TEQUESTA ' ; , , Post Office Box 3273 • 357 Tequesta Drive `' Tequesta, Florida 33469-0273 • (407) 575-6200 ° " � � Faac: (407) 575-6203 ; o B 4 f, �H COUN� VILLAGE OF TEQUESTA D4VER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MARCH 20, 1996 I. INTRODUCTIONS Mr. J. B. Frost, Environmental Services Director for Gee and Jenson Engineers, engineers for the Village of Tequesta, introduced himself, village Manager Tom Bradford, Village Clerk Joann Manganiello, Public Works Director Gary Preston, and Project Manager Al Oslund, also with Gee and Jenson. Representatives from South Florida Water Management District were Senior Professional for Surface Water Management Ken Todd, Staff Environmental Analyst Stacey D. Myers, and Senior Civil Engineer Jane Hiscock. Mr. Frost explained that the purposes of the meeting were (1) to inform all interested parties of the proposed Dover Ditch Project, and (2) to hold a public information meeting to get input from thase in attendance. Mr. Frost announced that a presentation would first be made and then comments would be heard. II. B�iCRGROUND ON DOVER DITCH Mr. Frost referred to an aerial phatograph of the Tequesta area taken in 1958, and an aerial photograph taken in 1995, and pointed out Dover Ditch on both. Mr. Frost commented that the historical picture was presented to show that Dover Ditch was dug a long time ago, and explained that it had been dug for the purpose of draining the land and to provide 1:������ i���i r�����>>. DO�ER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATIQN MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 2 ---------------------------------- protection from flooding. Mr. Frost referred to a graphic to illustrate the service area af Dover Ditch, and explained that one of the impartant things to understand from an environmental perspective was that the Loxahatchee River was considered an Outstanding Florida Water, and was therefore an aquatic preserve. Mr. F�ost explained that Dover Ditch still functioned for it's original purpose, and drained the water from a large area containing six sub basins. Flap gates which used to allow tidal waters to back up into the upland cut ditch had becom� inoperative, causing aquatics in the ditch water today which would not normally be there. Mr. Frost com�.ented that the environmental issues associated with the project were important. Access for maintenance had been only along the north side of the ditch, which was really inadequate for maintenance; however, a� the present time there was no access at all. Gee and Jenson had looked at how this situation could be made better for everyone long term, and the best solution from a value engineering standpoint had been installation of cuiverts. III. PROPOSSD I�ROV�'SNT PLAN Mr. Frost explained that the project had gone through many, many loops, and had been reviewed from a performance staMdpoint not only by Gee and Jenson as the engineer for the district, but also by Ken Todd from SF'WNID. Mr. Frost explained that there were very strict guidelines that must be adhered to from a performance standpoint and that some things could not be modi�ied. One of those items that could not be modified was the que, the volume of water over time, which from Mr. Frost's perspective meant that whatever they did to Dover Ditch could not change the voiume of water delivered to the Loxahatchee River over any given period of time. Another mandate was to look at the cost benefit to find the best way to move this water long term and �till DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 3 have something that could be maintained. The proposed design plan was reviewed, which consisted of a broad crested weir with a rip�ap overflow on the Loxahatchee side of the weir, pipes under Riverside Drive, triple 48" pipes from Riverside Drive to appraximately 450 feet from Seabrook Raad and then triple 36" pipes to Seabrook. The entire pipe system would be underground with a swale system above the pipes. An open ditch would continue East of Seabrook Road. After several comments from the audience, Mr. Frost requested that all comments be held until the presentatian was complete. Mr. Frost explained that there would be risers in a number of pl�ces throughout the underground pipe system and explained that water which entered the swale s�stem would go down into the pipes, out into the open area, and when there was su�ficient rainfall-- over the top af the broad crested weir into the Loxahatchee River. Mr. Frost addressed the water quality issues, and the mandate that no degradation could be caused to the Loxahatchee River. Several rounds of talks with Sb'�vNID had resulted in the proposed design, in which the pipes would be flushed twice each day by the tides and also when sufficient rainfall was available, over the weir, and through the rocks to aerate the water before it entered the Loxahatchee. A1 Oslund addressed the project from an engineering perspective. Mr. Oslund referred to a graphic depicting the entire basin area, the sub basins, the pipe sections which drained either into Dover �itch ar into the Loxahatchee River, and explained that there was no positive flow from the Jupiter side of Dover Ditch, but that the rainwater pooled until there was sufficient surface flow to work its way to Dover Ditch. Mr. Oslund explained the area covered by each numb�red sub basin. The surface water profile map was also explained by 1�r. Oslund, who commented that a 25- year 3-day event would have 12.6 inches of rain. Using both DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC zNFORM�TION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 4 ---------------------------------- maps, Mr. Oslund indicated that flooding would occur when the groun.d became saturated the way the system was de�igned at the present time. An option to help the situation was to take sub basin number one north of Tequesta Drive, consisting approximately �2 acres of surface area, and remove it from the Dover Ditch drainage basin by changing its outfall toward the river. The chan.ce of flooding would be reduced to almost none for a�5-year 3-day event by removing that sub basin and giving Jupiter the opportunity to add pipes to their side so that there would be positive outfall from their side in:to Dover Ditch. Mr. Oslund explained that this underground pipe system would eliminate the maintenance problem of overgrowth such as currently existed. Mr. Frost described what the final plan would look like, and e.xplained that a lot of white mangrove would be proposed for removal to help resolve the future maintenance issue. Mr. Frost explained that the original function, drainage, must be primary, with restoration of as many aesthetic features as possible. One of the possibilities being considered was to plant cocoplum or beauty bush and sand cord grass in the swale areas and the open ditch area. These would attract birds while growing basically in one area with minimum spread. Some of the area could be mowed as opposed to using a backhoe for maintenance. IV. AGENCY AND PUBLIC CO�NT SOUTB FLORIDA 4�ATSR MANAG�NT DISTRICT Ken Todd, SFWNID, commented that the District was concerned with balancing the flooding problems with the environmental aspects of water quality, and did not want to create a problem within the river. Mr. Todd explained that Gee and Jenson had been mandated by SFWNID to come up with a system which would match the pre-development runoff as much as DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 5 ---------------------------------- possible, yet at the same time get rid of water to eliminate flooding. Mr. Todd asked those who had comments to try to think the project through, look at the system as being presented, and realize that this was a balancing act of both environmental and flooding problems. CORP OF SNGINLgRS Mr. David Smith, who had planned to represent the COE at this meeting, was unable to attend. GENERAL P'USLIC , Larry Zieliaski, reported he had lived at 403 Dover Road, right at Dover Circle since 1968. Mr. Zielinski provided a brief history of Dover Ditch, and explained that he had requested that the village Council establish a drainage system which originally had worked well, until the areas north of Tequesta Drive were developed and the drainage diverted into Dover Ditch, which could not handle the water. Mr. 2ielinski questioned the proposed plan at Riverside Drive, to which Mr. Oslund responded that another pipe would be added. Mr. Zielinski explained he had been flooded out five times, and suggested a Chainlink fence to catch debris to stop blockage of the water flow. Mr. Zielinski disagreed there was no access for maintenance, explaining that he had driven there. Mr. Zielinski commented that he believed the cost of putting in cul.verts would be a lot more than redesign of the open swale with a travel area; and questioned the calculations to arrive at a certain size culvert to handle a certain amount of water. Mr. Oslund e.xplained that computer modeling programs had be used, which figured the size of the pipes needed. J. B. Frost agreed with Mr. Zielinski that the initial cost wpuld be more than a redesign of the open ditch, but stated that the piping was a better alternative from a long-term perspective. Mr. Zielinski expressed concern that the piping could not handle DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 6 ---------------------------------- the water volume and would have no outlet for overflow. Gearge Dicksoa, West Windsor Road, explained that he was _ spokesman for a number of other people. Mr. Dickson presented minutes of the original meeting between Tequesta and Palm Beach County where the Village had agreed to the work to create Dover Ditch and to perpetual maintenance of the ditch; the original drawing of the ditch, and a diagram showing lots in the area. Mr. Dickson commented that he had received a letter from Jupiter in 1962 saying that the village proposed elimination of the ditch by installing pipes and asking if residents would be interested in purchasing the property behind their existing propert� to help with the cost, however, no one was interested. Mr. Dickson explained that he had received a letter from the Corp of Engineers stating that the Village had requested a permit to eliminate the ditch in its present state, and read into the record the letter sanctioned by his neighbors that he had written in reply, �hich expressed strong opposition to the destruction of the wildlife supported by the ditch, the ability of the ditch to handle a large amount of rain even with the system clogged from lack of maintenance and the flap gates removed, and requested a public hearing on this matter. Signatures had been obtained and submitted to the Corp of Engineers. The Village had sent pictures in response which depicted sand fill.ing up the causeway and the amount of mangroves which had grown up, which Mr. Dickson stated should have been sent by the residents, since the Village had not maintained the ditch, which was their obligation. Mr. Dickson commented that the Corp of Engineers had sent out notices and the anly opposition was from the local residents, because the agencies did not know what they were referring to since the ditch was not referred to as Dover Ditch on their records. Mr. Dickson expressed concerns if the proposed plan were built regardYng access, security of the homes, destruction of a viable wetland, affirmed that the water was not stagnant and that mosquitos were not a problem, that pipes would not improve water quality, that lower ma.intenance should not be an issue since the agreement had been for the Village to maintain tihe ditch in perpetuity, that there had been no flooding recently and DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 7 ---------------------------------- none where these residents lived, that erosion probiems existed, and that the white mangroves were not the same as the ones with the elaborate root s�stems and these contributed to the erosion problems. A woman in the audience commented she had lost a fence due to the erosion. Mr. Dickson referred to minutes of the Finance and Administration Committee of the Village of Tequesta beginning in 1992 where Dover Ditch improvements and their cost had been discussed. In summary, Mr . Dickson co�nsnented that the mangraves were a major factor in creatin.g the erosion; that the ditch expanded during heavy rains from 30 to 50 feet so that his house was �ever flooded; submitted pictures showing grates clogged with weeds and branches; showed a picture of sand and mud washed out of an existing pipe during a large storm, and a photo of water standing in his front yard which almost reached his front door. Mr. Dickson expressed concern that the proposed plan would provide access to the backs of homes which would be a security problem, and that property values would be affected. Mr. Dickson also expressed concern tha� the proposed plan could not handle the volume of water created in a hurricane. Mr. Dickson explained that the Jupiter mayor and ma.nager had been no help; com4nented that the ditch did not dr�r Qut in the summer; and discussed the number of lawyers he had contacted regarding this situation. Karea McCroy, 359 Cedar Avenue, questioned whether more grates and drains were proposed, and whether existing drains would be cleaned out, to which Mr. �slund responded by pointing out locations where additional grates would be in5tal.led. Mr. Preston responded that the village had had the drains cleaned out within the past few years. Ms. McCro�r disagreed with the comrnent that there were no mosquitos, since there were many in her yard and garage; reported her garage had been floaded with six inches of water; and questioned how the landscape would appear after construction of the proposed plan. Mr. Frost explained that under the proposed plan the area would be sodded with grass and shrubs would be interspersed in certain areas where they would not interfere with maintenance. Ms. McCroy responded that seemed more secure than at present for young children DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 8 ---------------------------------- who might accidentally drown in the ditch. Mr. Frost explained that water should nat stand above the grated risers. D�ve DoWniag, 320 Riverside Drive, stated that he also represented Mrs. gollomaa of 319 Riverside Drive, and that when he had moved here in 1964 the ditch was 4-5 feet wide on his property and was now about 20 feet wide, and that although the things Mr. Dickson had referred to were all true, it was now time to do something. Mr. Downing stated there were plenty of times the ditch was dr� east of Riverside Drive. 1�1r. Downing explained that Mrs. Holloman�s property was eroding away and now had only 8 feet left next to the foundation of her home, and the sand from 20 years of erosion had collected in the Loxahatchee River, which had made a mess. Mr. Downing stated it was time to stop the studies and do something. Mike Blaom, 204 River Terrace, questioned the location of grates, which Mr. Frost explained would be above the pipe system. Mr. Blaom expressed concern that if the three pipes being installed were not at least as large as the present ditch that less water would be moved. Mr. Frost explained that 42 acres would be removed from the system and the bottleneck at Riverside would be helped by the installation of a third pipe, and that water would flow faster through pipes than in an open ditch. Mr. Bloom questioned whether other options had been considered so that the ditch could be preserved ecologically, and explained that the area behind his house always had fish there, including snook. Mr. Bloam expressed the opinion that if 99� of the people who lived on the ditch clid not want the proposed plan that another way should be found so that the people would be happy, since it was their ta�c dollars which would be used. Mr. Bloom expressed his apinion that the present problems ` were the result of its not being maintained. Tom Little, 486 Dover Road, reported he had lived there approximately 32 years and had seen all the problems. Mr. Little proposed that an inexpensive way to resolve the problems would be to flush all the drainage lines leading to DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORM�TION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 9 ---------------------------------- Dover Ditch, which would create a lot of water on Jupiter�s side of the ditch. Mr. Little asked that health and safety be considered, since a big flood could cause major septic tank problems. Mr. Little asked the engineers whether there was an accessible easement today for maintenance, to which Mr. Frost responded no, that it was not accessible. Mr. Pr�ston explained that accessibility had been lost through erosion, and when people talked about driving a truck along the ditch that was on private property which the village could not access. Mr. Little commented that people should start thinking about how access could be obtained in order to start work, and mentioned easements or emminent domain. Mr. Little suggested a weir would be needed ori Tequesta Drive if the flow £rom 42 acres north of it were diverted to the river. Mr. Little questioned whether any permitting had been obtained, to which Mr. Frost responded, nn. Mr. Little predicted that with the opposition from Jupiter residents that the Corp of Engineers would stop the project when permits were requested, and again suggested flushing the pipes so that the water would go to Jupiter, and questioned whether Tequesta could then handle the flow from the village, since the communit� now contained 42 acres of developed property north of Tequesta Drive which had not been the case when the ditch was originally established. Mr. Little urged that Jupiter and Tequesta must work together on a solution, and that if they did not they must realize that either the State or Federal government would eventually step in to prevent having to pay for future flood damage, and the ma.tter would be taken out of the residents' hands and they would be presented with a bill for the solution. Roger DePotter, 208 River Terrace, pointed out a culvert at Riverside Drive which he stated was 3/4 blocked and could be cleaned out with a backhoe, which he stated would improve water flow by 50�, and the mangroves could be removed because they were not environmentally sensitive. Mr. DePotter expressed the opinion that the proposed pipes would not handle the water volume. Lisa Lemaaovich, 1623 Seabrook Road, questioned whether any DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PR�JECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES NIARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 10 ---------------------------------- improvements would be done there and whether sub basin number 2 might be added into the Dover Ditch system, which was a concern since they had been flooded out twice. Ms. Lemanovich reported the culvert at her property became clogged and she cleaned it out. Mr. Oslund reported he had been in contact with Jupiter's engineers regarding sub basins 2 and 4 and they were now in the process of determining what they might do, and Tequesta's improvements would incorporate any improvements made by Jupiter. David Rotar stated he was with the Stormwater Division for the Town of Jupiter, and explained that presently changes were being designed for Riverside Drive to change drainage to go south to get it out of Dover Ditch, and the town was trying to work with Tequesta; and the present status was that a budget transfer had been made to accomplish �he engineering wark. Mr. Rotar explained that the town's engineering firm, Hutcheons, had a lot of backgraund data because they had done work there during the 1980s. Gertrude Licklider, 1l7 West Windsor Road, reported that on the Jupiter side of Dover Ditch trees, bushes, and fences had all washed down into the ditch, and that thirteen years ago when Dover Road had flooded a new pipe had been installed across from her land andat least 5 feet had been, taken from her property in the process which had created erosion on her property. Mike Hloam, 244 River Terrace, cammented that it had been the responsibility of the Village of Tequesta to maintain the ditch and since the present problems were a result of lack of maintenance he proposed that the Village should restore the ditch. Mr. Oslund explained that with the buildout of Tequesta, approximately 180 acres volume of water was now going into the ditch, so that if the Village rebuilt the ditch to its original condition that it could not handle that volume. Rager DePotter, 208 River Terrace, stated the recent tremendous rainfall had been handled. Mr. Oslund disagreed, and stated it had not been handled. Mr. DePotter conceded DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMA:TION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 11 ---------------------------------- that some places had flooded. Mr. Oslund commented that . man�r people had been flooded and it was the responsibility of the engineers to look at the big picture to make sure that nobody was flooded. Sm�anuel Picc3tto, 121 West Windsor Road, commen�ed that the proposed design had not taken into account Jupiter�s side of the drainage, to which Mr. Oslund responded that the plan did take that area into consideration. Mr. Piccitto commented that unless Jupiter actually did something there was no drainage from that side and at this goint they had not done anything. Mr. Oslund agreed, and stated this was only a preliminary design. Mr. Piccitto expressed the opinion that the process had not been taken far enough at this poin.t ta warrant getting a lot of people excited. Mr. Piccitto expressed cancern with the size of the proposed pipes. Mr. Oslund explained that the design was pnly preliminary and if Jupiter proposed a design which did not mesk� then the size of the pipes could be changed, and that the intent was to produce a final design by working with Jupiter. Mr. Piccitto questioned the result of removing the 42 acres to the north, conunented that cleaning pipes which were now clogged would result in reversing the present situation so that Tequesta residents would then have problems. Mr. Piccitto corrnnented that only a portion of the problem was being addressed at this point, that this meeting was really premature, and that a solution must be found by including Jupiter. Mr. Oslund commented that the Village was working with Jupiter. Village Manager Bradford commented that Mr. Piccitta had a very good point, however, explained that the V�.11age of Tequesta could not force Jupiter to design a plan and spend money to address �. drainage conveyance system in the town of Jupiter. Mr. Bradford explained that the Village had attempted to do that over the years, and had acknowledged for a long tirne that they had a maintenance p�oblem. The village Manager stated that in order to address the problem in a comprehensive fashion, Mr. Piccitto and the other Jupiter residents needed to let the Jupiter town officials know that they wanted something done simultaneously with Teque�ta so that the drainage problem could be dealt with on a regional basis. DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 12 ---------------------------------- Mr. Piccitto asked if that were the case why didn�t Tequesta implement a plan which would only affect Tequesta. �ally Sates, 219 Norfalk Road, expressed his opinion that the pipe going down Tequesta Drive was too small. Mr. Oslund explained that a staging sequence must be follawed. Mike Meder, 114 Chagel Lane, questioned that sewer lines were not shown for storm water drainage on roads in the area north of Tequesta Drive. Mr. Oslund explained that there was a preli�inary design for construction of the po�itive outfall from Willow all the way south, including Shay Place, but that was not the subject under discussion. Mr. Frost responded to Mr. Meder's question regarding the height of the weir that it would be located 300 feet west of Riverside Drive and would have a 2.3 crest weir elevation with mean high water elevation of 1.�4 MGB. Mr. Meder stated he understood the plan for Lake Okeechobee was to release water into C-18 Canal in times of flooding, and questioned how much water the Village could handle. Mr Todd of SFwNID stated that Lake Okeechobee did not connect to C-18. Mr. Meder questioned whether the proposed plan in�luded any work on Seabrook Road aver the culverts there. Mr. Oslund responded that work would be done very quickly. Mr. Meder questioned the projected elapsed time far the project and the estimated cost. Mr. Oslund estimated six months for construction and stated that the cost was now estimated at $900,OQ0--to be financed by a bond issue by the Village of Tequesta. Pau1 Moraa, 404 Dover Circle, stated he approved of the plan, it was a good one, and let`s do it. �r. Dicksoa, West Windsor Road, commented that the proposed plan would defy gravity. �ally Batea, 219 Norfolk Raad, commented that there would still be flooding no matter what was done. Mr. Frost explained that there were events that could not be planned for and a system could not be designed for such occurrences, DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PR�JECT PUBLIC INF�RMA.TION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 PAGE 13 ---------------------------------- but must be designed around more current events. Mr. Bates commented that in the section where Mr. Zielinski lived the houses were built very low and would probably always experience flooding unless pumping stations were installed. Mr. Frost explained that the surface profiles drawn b� the computer reflected the benefit which could be expected as a result of construction of the proposed plan. Mr. Bates questioned whether Tequesta would maintain keeping the head basins clean. Mr. Frost explained that the maintenance problem resulted from no access, not easement, along �over Ditch; and when the new system was in place the Village of Tequesta would be respo�sible for it's maintenance. Jack 0'Conaer, 123 West windsor, stated that the east side of Seabrook Road was maintained by Tequesta, but the west side had never been touched, and pipes were backed up with sand. Mr. O'Conner stated he did not think there would be a problem if it were maintained. Mike Bloom, 204 River Terrace, commented people who live� on the ditch wanted to get the flooding stopped, but also wanted to save the ditch and at the same time save tax dollars. Mr. �rost responded that compromise must be reached somewhere between saving Dover Ditch in its current state and stopping flooding. Mr. Frost stated that taking a look at the big picture from an environmental perspective, th� whole system perspective, as well as the damage being done by Dover Ditch, that an aerial view of the Loxahatchee �iver showed a huge plume, or sandbar, created frorn the erosion washing away people's praperty. Mr. Frost stated that his firm had tried to weigh all of the alternatives and had worked with the Corp af Engineers, and explained that Mr. Dave Smith from the Corp of Engineers had been scheduled on the agenda to answer questions, but had been unable to attend. Mr. Frost stated that all of the comments were appreciated and would be very seriously considered. Jim Sach, 212 River Terrace, questioned Mr. Frost's comment that the s�stem would not handle a flood. Mr. Frost explained that the everyday storms would be handled, however, there were storm events that no Qne could plan for. DOVER DITCH IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING MINUTES MARCH 20, 1996 P�GE 14 ---------------------------------- Mr. Frost explained that the 25-year 3-day event model must be used. Mr. Dicksan commented that Dover Road had flooded in every maj or storm and Tequesta should put a pumping station in that street, because nothing would change the fact that the homes in that area were too low. Tom Little commented that last October was the first time he had water in his house in 32 years and attributed it to the fact that the water was not flowing down the ditch properly. Mr. Little inquired what the cost would be for a plan against a 100-year storm, and stated by using four times the 25-year model the cost would be 4 times $900,000 and pipes would have to be 4 times the sizes proposed. Mr. Frost responded that it would be considerably more money. V . ADJOURNMENT Mr. Frost thanked everyone for their comments and assured them that those comments would be taken into account. The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 P.M. Respectfully submitted, » � � �-� \ a �� ��; � � y ��;�� �, --� � - , ,_ -�y . ��-� :_ '� �? � _ �' , Betty Laur Recording Secretary ATTEST: _� J ann Mangani lo Village Clerk DATE APPROVED: �� s. �9��