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HomeMy WebLinkAboutDocumentation_Regular_Tab 03_07/14/2005 VILLAGE QF TEQUESTA PLANNING AND Z4NING ADVI50RY BOARD 1VIEETING MINUTES JUNE 2, 2005 I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The Village of Tequesta Planning and Zoning Advisory Boazd held a regularly scheduled meeting at the Tequesta Reereation Center, 399 Seabrook Road, Tequesta, Florida, an Thursday, sune 2, 2005. The meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. by Chair Elizabeth Schauer. A roll ca11 was taken by Village Clerk Gwen Carlisle. Board members present were: Chair Elizabeth Sehauer, Vice Chair Steve Okun, Jeff Robbins, and William Wilder. Also in attendance were Clerk of the Board and Community Development Director Jeff Newell, Village Clerk Gwen Carlisle, and Attorney I�aren Roselli. Boazd member Leslie Cook was absent but had sent an e-mail stating she was out of town. Atternate member Carl Blase was also absent. II, APPROV.AL OF AGEI�IDA MOTION Board member Wilder woved approval of the agenda as submitted. Vice � Chair 4kun secanded the mation, which carried by unanimous 4-0 vote. The motion was therefore passed and adopted and the Agenda was approved as amended. III. APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES MOTION• Boa mber Robbins made a motion to agprave the minutes of the regular meeting af May 5, 20t15. Baard member Wildcr secanded the motion, which carried by unanimous 4-4 vote. ` IV. NEW BUSINESS Presentation of "Internal Traffic Contral" Attomey Karen Roselti advised she had provided a memo to the members of the board regarding governmental liability for approval of projects with internal tr�c controls, and that basically there was sovereign immunity, whether on private ar public praperty. T'his �vas a planning level activity for which the Village would be protected. The material provided explained the difference between planning level and operational activities. Operations was where ; Planning and Zoning Advisory Board June 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes Page 2 governments sometimes got into trouble--if the Village were to undertake to maintain a traffic control device and was negligent in maintaining or operating it, or created a dangerous condition, there would be a liability. Attomey Roselli commented it was her understanding that the board's conc�rn was that if a project had within it speed limits or stop signs, etc., that had something wrong with them, then someone who was injured might be able to go back against the Village, and the answer to that was they could not do so. Vice Chair 4kun advised that was not what had been discussed. Basically, the Village did not get involved in traffic controls on private property, but it was Mr. Okun's understanding that the Village had two areas of enfarcement on private property involving vehicular traf�ic. �ne was handicap pazking and the other . was fire lanes. The situatian was signs that were posted and if a police officer was in the area he did not enforce the sign because he knew those were private signs; at the satne time, he was told to enforce them if a commercial opera.tion requested enforcement. Vice Chair Qkun was eoncerned �e Village offered a false sense of security by allowing the signs to be placed there, a�nd whether there was limited liability or not, the Village was aliawing something to happen far wluch they should be off the hook. Attorney Roselli responded there were definite gui�i.elines for these things ancl you couldn't just not have a stop sign if one was needed. Attomey Roselli advised the Village must rely an the engineer when approving a project, since he certified the layout of the project, and the Viilage did no� need to be invvived in teiling people wher� to place �c signs in the project. If an engineer deviated from the �tandards ta be followed, then the Village should have a hold hann�ess agreement and have the engineer �or the pr�ject sp�eifically take respansibility for designing a project that did not comply with the engineering standards. Mr. Okun commented he was aware of the uniform standards and ther� were specific criteria with regard to traffic ct�nirol signage. Mr. Okun stated in order for tra�f'ic control signage to be pla�ed, there needed to be an engineering study to validate those specific r�quir�ments, and he knew a case where that was not what had happened. Attorney Roselli advised that in that case, th� Viilage needed to have the engineer explain why the project did not canform to the standards, aecept respansibility, and give an e�lanation. Chair Schauer asked what it would take to remove a particular stop sign, to which Attarney Roselli responded if it were a part of the approved site plan, tl�en it shouldn't be remaved. If it wasn't, and was on private property, Attamey Rosel}i stated she di� not know why it would be the Village's problem if it was on private property. Attorney �toselli stated she needed to understand the boazd's concern and what they were trying to accomplish. If the Village was trying to avoid liability, they didn't rea�l� have liability; i£ they were trying to get into ha.�ing the police departsnent enfo�rce things on grivate property� she did not k�aow if that was the Council's direction or if the golice department had addressed whether they wanted to do that. Planning and Zoning Advisory Board June 2, Z005 Meeting Minutes Page 3 Mr. Newell explained that site plans were reviewed by the police department and they made note of anything with which they were uncomfortable, which was reported to the property owner. In final inspections, no one checked that, since the Village was not large enough to have an engineering department. If you talked to the police department they would tell you it was on private pragerty. Attorney RQSelii advised the Village had sovereign immunity, and if someane didn't put up a stop sign where they should have, it would fa11 on the property owner. If standards had not been met and the Village was uncomfortable, Attorney Roselli recommended they get an indemnification agreement. As faz as enforceability, if there was a property owner with tenants then restrictive covenants eould be recorded and the covenants against the tenants and their guests enforced; but Attorney Roselli commented she did not l.now that the government really wanted to get into the affairs of property owners. Vice Chair Okun commentec� he had spoken with Mr. Newell and then with the Village Manager, and what. seemed to be the easiest solutzon ta having any liability or having the risk of misunderstanding between what the respansibilities of the Village were and what the respansibil'zties of the private landQwner were would be to put together a document to be signed by the landowner and Village, whereby the landowner indemnified the Village for any signs they put up. Than put the burden back on the landowner. This would apply to stop signs in front of Publix. It would extract the Village and make the xesponsibility af the private praperty owmer mare canspicuous. If there were a clear underst�nding and agreement, the Village would not have to go through a lat of the legal time and burden. Attarney Raselli advised that did not even haye to b� doz�e because under Flarida. law the Village did not ha.ve any liability right now. Just by approving a project tha.t had internal tt�af�ic eontrols, the Village was not liable. Vice Chair Okun expressed concern if �ke internal traffic cor�trols eamE at�tex approval of the praject. Attarney Roselli ad.vised th� Village was nat liable under Florida 1aw. The perception of the public would not matter because if sorriebody . was going to su�, they were going to sue everybody, and if they said the Village had negligence in approving a praject that ditd vr did not have internal traffic controls in it, it would get dismissed. Thaf was clear cut u�der Florida law. If the Village wanted to get irtdemnification fram everybody they cou}d do sa, but it might create difficulties, because that inde�u�ification would n�ver go away, aud in her experience businesses woutd nQt agree to do that. She did not see that as a good planning process, but the �illage could ask for it, atthaugh they were already ve�ry well pratected under Fiorida law. The government could not just be held liable for a lot of approvais and inspections. There were a lot of cases�—this theory af law evalved when governments were being sued for building inspections where the inspector did not catch samething and there was actual wrongdoing an the part of the inspector--�ut the court said no, that was under - sovereign immunity. There was a whole line of different kinds of cases where this theory ha.d been a�plied, whether for maintenance of a road, maintenance of Planning and Zoning Advisory Board June 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes Page 4 foliage, unsafe conditions on a street or sidewalk, etc. It was just part of allowing governments to do business and operate--they could not be responsible for every little thing they did. Attorney Roselli advised that if this was something the Village wanted to require, she could draft something, Uut she did nat think it was necessary. Mr. Newell commented regarding building inspections, it must be proved it was a willful malicious act and then there were grounds far a lawsuit, otherwise there was immunity. Attorney Roselli concurred. Vice Chair Okun felt that property owners would be more diligent if there were guidelines and it wauld avaid any confusion. Mr. Newell resgond�d c�n prajeets it was the civil engineer laying out the parking lo�, etc., and he was required to foliow standards. Attorney Raselii reported she had spoken ta the engineer in Jupiter �vho �aid by virtue of the engineer signi�g and sealing the plans vvith these tra�c control devices, he was representing that th�y complied witli the standards and if they did not co�ply he disclosed it on the plans—and that was when the Viliage wou}.d ha:�e �. caus� to guestian �rhy n4t, Attarney Raselli advised th�t in represe�ting ather mu�ieigalities she h� nev�r seen �d�m�ificat�a�� as a candition of apprvva,l, but she did not have a problem with it. If the Planning a�d Zaning Board wanted fit� recommend that proc�dure, she cc�uld draft it. � Board member Rc�bbins commented he dealt with Palm Beach County daily for insgections, and a lot vf times if the insp�ctor questi�ned samethir�g ag a�t of plans ar there had been a change, an engineer' � letter which was signed a�d seaied was requested. That put the burden of r�spansibility back on the engineer. IV1r. New�:�l a.gree�, and nc�led if a buildin� d�partment chang�d �omething on a �lan �.�ter th� engincer signed and sealet� it, `then it became th�ir resgox�sibility, so b�ailciiug d4partments were not gc�ing to make changes without a letter of acknawied�e�nent from the engineer. �hair Schauer comrnented on The �rossings praject, that there vvere na internal st�p �igns. IV�r. Newell acivised t�iat the plantiers on that proj�+ct were Gentile & �s�vciates, a.nd th�y wv�r� respQnsible to meet the standards. The building de�artment was reuiew�g against the code. Vice Chair Okun noted what was being recc�rn�mentied wa�. �h�et sc�mebtfdy fallr�w the es�,a.blisbr�d t�af�ie cc�n�rc�l guidelines, whether the�r wcre an priva� or �ublic I�ncl. 1VV�r. Clkt� ec���e�t� ane of the req�irements to ha�e a stag sign r�v�s tv ha�e a elea�° �ight t� zian��e, ar�d th�t dic� nc�l ��st wher� rane af the stc�� si�ns at Pulalix was located. Attorney Rs���iii a�vis�;d if ihe Vi11a�c created a s�tuati�n t�t cz�ated a hazardous c:onditir�n, t��:y had a�iuty to warn about #hat, anrl coulci place warning signs that there was a baz.aard ahead. If they d�ti n�t �varn: the pubii� thc:n t��� �6u�€i �e liabilit�. Viee Ghair 4kun ec�mm�:n�ed if the fcdc�� �,��crn�e�� ��d �r��� contral g�zidelines, an.d a la.ncio�vn.er was �;c�ing to use tr�e sar�e si� t�a�t wc���d b� �s�c� i� t�� �u��lic th��_r�u�;hfares� �he� the public �id ncit knoyv where priva�e and ��k��i�; �an�s 1x:�a:r� and �nci�d, Attorney R��elli advi�eci that by virtue of the �;n�;ine�;r �avin� si�,Tn�d and sealed that became his resgonsibility. Planning and Zoning Advisary Board June 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes Page 5 � Mr. Newell advised there was no permitting process for internal traffic controls in any jurisdictzon. If they did so, they would be assuming the liability, and that was why they did not touch it. Attorney Roselli commented language could be on the application form that engineering must confortn to the standazd, but when they signed and sealed it was assumed they were conforming to the standard. Board member Robbins gave an example that if an engineer told him to add an extra strap and to use a specific strap because it would give 800 pounds af uplift, he wasn't going to test that strap---he was going to trust what the engineer told him that when he added that strap it would provide S00 pounds of uplift. And if that strap broke under only 200 pounds of pressure, Mr. Robbins was not ta blame as long as he had a statement from the engineer saying to use that strap, and that was the engineer's opinion. Vice Chair Okun commented he was raising the issue because he believed a lot of this was based on opinions as opposed to a standard that had been developed for a reason, and if the Village recognized that standard weren't they doing a better s�rvice to the residents. Mr. Newell commented there was absolutely nothing in, the Florida Building Code atiout internal tr�c contrals—it literally fell into the civil engineering arena. Attorney Roselli acivised that during a projeet review the board could ask about internal traffic controls and have the engineer represent to them he had followed the standards, and then it would be on the record. If he indicated he had deviated, that would be a red flag. Mr. Rabbins nated a lvt of times this board only saw preliminary plans, artists' renditivns, and ovezall concepts. IVfr. Newe�I explained there were little white lines on the plans called stop bar� that indicated where stop signs would be, but it wa� not a criteria of the review of the applica#ion and what the board was look,ing fc�r was code violation�. Attorney Roselli commented the applicant did not want anything to be wrong and it was in their best interest to get somebody to do the joh right and p�ace �tog signs in the right places- Vice Chair Okun stated all he was trying to da was to raise the level of awareness a little bit higher, because he thought there was an assumption that everything took care �f itself. He sta.ted he had been involved in development, and no one ask�d what happened. unti� there was closer scrutiny, and when somebody asked a questio�t then you h�:d ta answer. Therc� was a standard that hacl been established by the State, and the Viiiage �ould sicie-s�ep liabili�.y because the State allowect it; however, wouldn't it make for a better projeet if, in faet, the applicant wa� made a little more diligent on internal signage. There were standards for handicap sgaces, ar�d fire lanes, an�i he �was only sug�esting that landowner be made a little more dili�ent to recagnize this was his responsibility, too. If he did that it might be easier far the people to use a stog sign, a�d a1�o f�r t1Ye pc�Iic� Ernc�� wauld no� have to expl�.in why they were not �vriting a ticl�et. Mr. New�;il commentec� the Village would have liability if they were signing off that ail intemal traffic Planning and Zoning Advisory Board June 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes . Page 6 controls were okay. Mr. Okun commented the Village was not doing that, Mr. Newell advised he had spoken with the owner of County Line Plaza, and he knew right away what Mr. Newell was talking about and said that he knew that was their responsibility. Vice Chair Okun expressed his opinion that landowners were not aware of their liability, but Mr. Newell and Attorney Roselli disagreed. Discussion ensued. Mr. Newell commented as a project was reviewed, an engineer of record signed off � that everything was okay on that whole job. Attorney Roselli advised the Village had no responsibility if the engineer made a mistake. Mr. Robbins commented the State certified the engineers. Chair Schauer commented he husband reviewed plans for the county and Solid Waste Authority, and there were certain criteria he had to meet on the site plans, and he had to look at internal traf�'ic controls. Traffic flow had to be addressed. Mr. Newell advised the Fire Chief checked the tuming radius for emergency vehicles. Mr. Okun asked if the Village had a copy of the uniform tr�c safety standards for traffic, to which Mr. Newell responded Public Works usually had that. Mr. Okun cc�mmented the intersection at Tequesta Drive and Bayview Terrace was an aecident waiting to happen. Mr. Newell suggested 1VIr. Okun could call Tom Jensen to ask for a copy of the uniform tr�c safety standazds. Mr. Robbins commented the only entity that could override an Engineer was tlie Army Corp of Engineers. Discussion ensued. Mr. Newell commented he would ask Mr. Gentile if he had the standards book for internal traffic controls. It was noted that the board had been successful with Publ� when they asked for speed tables instead of speed bumps. Mr. Newell commented on the lack of a stop sign at Treasure Coas� Mall. Mr. 4kun commented the population was aging but hanging on to their driving licenses, which was dangerous. Mr. Wilder commented he hated roundabouts. Gardens Malls also did not have stap signs, which was scary when first encountered. Vice Chair Okun stated he thought the board had addressed his concern, and if sta,ff felt they could do more #o make applicants aware and focus due diligence on the part of the developers in the use of internal traf�'ic controls, he thought that should be dane. Chair Scha.uer cammented at St. Jude's peogle parked in the fire lanes and emergency vehicles could not get in. Attorney Roselli commented when older projects were developed these standards might have been different, and new development had new standards. V. COMMUl�TICATIONS FROM CITIZENS There were no communications from citizens. Planning and Zoning Advisory Board June 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes Page 7 ' • VI. ANY OTHER MATTERS There were no other matters to come before the board. VII. ADJOURNMENT � Upon motion by Vice Chair Okun, seconded by Board member Robbins, and unanimously carried, the meeting was adjourned at 7:25 p.m. Respectfully submitted, ��"l � �� �� � y Gwen Cariisie Village Clerk